Rejecting a Car after finance is settled

[flimes]

Sorry for the long post but I don't want to miss out any relevant information:

My wife bought a car from Trade Centre UK and have been having nothing but trouble with it. Unfortunately we paid of the finance used to buy the car as we weren't expecting this much trouble with the car as we we though we would have protection as buying from a dealer.

We are wondering if we can still reject the vehicle since the finance plan has been paid off.

Timeline is as follows:

13/12/2023 -15/12/2023	Bought car from Trade Centre UK for £10548 £2000 deposit paid on credit card on 13/12/2023 £8548 on finance from Moneybarn (arranged through Trade Centre UK). picked up car on 15/12/2023
25/12/2023	Engine Management Light comes on. The AA called out and diagnosed the following error codes: P0133 - Lambda sensor (bank 1, sensor 1) Oxygen Sensor. Error Message : Slow reaction. Error sporadic P0135 - Lambda sensor heat. circ.(bank1,sensor1) Oxygen Sensor. Error Message : Component defective Due to it being Christmas took a few days to get through to them but they booked me in for 28/12/2023 to run their own diagnostics.
28/12/2023	Took car in to Trade Centre so could check the car – They agreed it was the Oxygen Sensor and Booked me in for repair on 30/01/2024. I was told they had no earlier slots, and I would be fine to carry on driving car when I said I was afraid of problem worse. During diagnosing the problem, they reset the Engine Management Light. During drive home light comes back on.
29/12/2023 - 29/01/2024	I carry on driving the car but closer to the date, engine goes to reduced power every now and again – not being a mechanic I presumed that this was due to above fault.
20/01/2024	Not expecting any more problems paid off the finance on the car using personal loan from bank with lower interest rate.
30/01/2024	Trade Centre replace to O2 sensor (They also take it on a roughly 60mile road trip which seems a bit excessive to me – I can’t prove this as something prompted me take a picture of milage when I handed car in but I forgot take one on collection – only remembered next day.)
06/02/2024	Engine goes in reduced power mode again and engine management light comes on – Thinking the Trade centre’s 28th day warranty period was over I booked the car the into local garage for the next day to get problem fixed under the lifetime warranty package. Fault seems to clear after engine was switched off.
07/02/2024	In the Morning, I take it to local garage who say as the light gone off – the warranty company is unlikely to cover the cost of the repair or diagnostics and recommend I contact them when the light comes back on. In the evening the light comes back on and luckily I manage to get it back to the garage just before it shuts for the day.
08/02/2024	The Garage sends me a diagnostics video showing a lot error codes been picked up by their diagnostics machine including codes for Oxygen sensor and Nox Sensors, Accelerator pedal and several more. Video also shows EGR Hose not connected to the intake manifold properly, they believed this was confusing the onboard system as it is unlikely this many sensors would trigger at same the time but they couldn’t be certain until they repaired the hose.
13/02/2024	Finally get the car back as it took a while to get approval and payment for the repairs from the Warranty company. Garage told me to keep an eye the car as errors had cleared with the hose but couldn’t 100% certain that’s what caused the problem.
06/03/2024	Engine management light comes on again. Fed up I go into Trade Centre as I was just around the corner when it happened and asked them how to reject the car or have the problem fixed. They insist that as it’s over 28 days I need to get the car fixed under the warranty package I purchased and they could no longer fix the car as it was over 28 days. When I tried telling them it appeared to be the same or related problem they said they couldn’t help as I hadn’t contacted them earlier. I asked them if they were willing to connect the car to the diagnostics machine and tell me what the problem was, as a goodwill gesture, which he agreed to do and took the car to the back He came back around 30 minutes later and said they took a look at the sensor they replaced previously and there was nothing wrong with it and engine management light went off when they removed the sensor to check it. When I asked what the error code he couldn’t give me an exact fault but the said it one of the problems I told him earlier (Accelerator pedal). I have this visit audio recorded on my phone – I informed the reps I was recording several times. As the light wasn’t on, local garage couldn’t book me for a repair under warranty.
07/03/2024	Light came on so managed to book back into local garage for the 12/03/2024 Whilst waiting to take car into garage, I borrowed a OBD sensor and scanned for errors on the car. This showed the following errors: P11BE – Manufacturer specific code (Google showed this to be NOX sensor) P0133 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Response too Slow
12/03/2024	Took car to local garage and the confirmed the above errors. This leads me to believe that either Trade Centre Uk reps lied and just reset the light or just didn’t check properly (Obviously I am unable to prove this)
22/03/2024	Finally got the car back as according to garage, the warranty company took a long to time to pay for the repairs
28/04/2024	Engine management Light has come back on. Using the borrowed OBD scanner I am getting the following codes: P0133 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Response too Slow P2138 - Accelerator Position Sensors (G79) / (G185): Implausible Correlation

I have not yet booked into a garage as I wanted to see what my rights are in terms of rejecting the car as to me the faults seem related.

I can’t keep using taxi or train to get to work every time the car goes into the garage as it is getting very expensive.

If I am still able to reject the vehicle could you point to any sample letters or emails I can use.

Thankyou for your advice on my next steps.

[flimes]

I have spoken to citizen advice bureau who advised me to write to Trade Centre UK and tell them I'm rejecting the vehicle. I asked about using section 75 if they refuse to accept the car I was told the following:

• since the finance is paid off - I'm unlikely to be able to get any help from MoneyBarn.
• The maximum The credit card company is likely to give me is £2000 as that's what I paid on the card (was for the deposit)

Is the above correct - I was on the understanding that the Credit Card company would need to cover all of it as long as we paid over £100 on it.

I have drafted the following letter using the template from CAB and would love to get some feedback on it before I send it:

To whom it may concern,

Ref: [Vehicle details]

I bought [Vehicle details] from you on 15 December 2023. I paid £10548.

I now find the goods have the following faults:

· Engine Management Light Keeps coming on

· Engine Goes into Reduced power mode

· O2 sensors showing fault even after repair (Both by Trade Centre UK and an Independant garage)

· Other error codes also show intermittently.



Car has been in for repair 3 times and is still showing fault codes – causing me additional costs and inconvenience

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, goods you supply must be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. As there was a problem with the goods when I bought them, and you have had a chances to repair the faults on 30^th January and 6^th of March 2024 (may not be logged by your customer agents at the Birmingham South branch – But I can provide audio recording and google maps history showing my husbands visit), I wish to exercise my legal right to reject the Vehicle and request that you give me a refund £10548 Minus an agreed amount for fair wear and tear.

If you fail to reimburse me, I shall have no alternative but to contact my payment providers to get refund and/or to issue a claim against you in the county court for recovery of the money without further reference to you.

Please respond within 14 days of receiving this letter

Thank you in advance

[Pezza54]

Hi
You were wrongly advised by CAB. Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act you can claim against the credit card company and trader, jointly or severally, for purchases £100 to £30k however much you paid for the deposit on your credit card.
You have paid off the finance loan for the car by taking out a personal loan which is not secured on the car
You are now the owner of the car and need to write to the dealer rejecting the car, which you have done

Your penultimate paragraph is incorrect. If the dealer refuses to accept your rejection your options are:
Start a Section 75 claim with your credit card company- probably the best option
If the dealer is affiliated with the motor ombudsman, contact this organisation for advice and potential claim
Make a court claim against the credit card company and the dealer jointly under CCA 74 and CRA 2015. As your claim may be over £10k (depending on the miles you have managed to drive the car) it could be allocated to the fast track and you would risk paying the defendant's legal cost if you lose the case

You could write "If you refuse to accept rejection of my car and fail to reimburse me, I intend to take further action which may involve the Court"

[des8]

I foresee a problem in that the vehicle was not purchased from Trade Centre UK, but from Moneybarn.

Trade Centre supplied the car to Moneybarn, from whom it was purchased by OP's wife.

[flimes]

You could write "If you refuse to accept rejection of my car and fail to reimburse me, I intend to take further action which may involve the Court"

Thankyou Pezza54 - I will update the paragraph to the above.

Should I include the timeline above with my letter?

Also should I send the letter to the Branch I Bought the car from to the Registered/Head office?

I foresee a problem in that the vehicle was not purchased from Trade Centre UK, but from Moneybarn.
Trade Centre supplied the car to Moneybarn, from whom it was purchased by OP's wife.

Thank you for your reply Des8 - how likely is it that this would could cause a problem, and is there anything I can do to help avoid this situation.

I now regret paying off the HP finance but wanted to save money on the interest and really didn't think there would be this much trouble with the car once they repaired it in January.

[des8]

I just think there could be a problem in that whilst the trader supplied the goods it was to a finance house.to whom you paid for the use of the vehicle but not for ownership (which rested with the finance house)
However when you paid off the finance you took ownership, and at that point the supplier was the finance company.

I might be overthinking this but......

[Pezza54]

Okay, perhaps the best option is a s75 claim against the card company and let them sort it out and decide whether to chase the dealer or the finance company

In your letter to the ccc you should state how you purchased the car and soon became the car's owner after paying off the finance loan

Important dates are the date you took delivery, the date a serious fault developed, when it went back to the dealer for repair and when the fault reappeared.

You would also need to state the dealer refused to accept your wish to reject the car and have your money refunded, breaching your final right to reject within 6 months of purchase under CRA 2015

The ccc will ask you for relevant correspondence so it is probably quicker to enclose it when you make your claim

[flimes]

Sorry for the delay in updating.

I had already sent the letter to Trade Centre UK before I saw the above reply, so now have to wait to see how they respond.

is the 14 days I have given them, 14 Working days or does it include weekends and bank holidays.

If it helps they signed for the letter on the 2nd of May.

[Pezza54]

14 calendar days from 2 May, then you should start a s75 claim with your ccc

[flimes]

Just an update

Had a phone call from them.

They've requested invoices from the local garage for the work that's been done one the car before they decide how they proceed.

I sent them the invoice by email and also reaffirmed that I want to reject the car as they already had 2 chances to fix the car. (Failed repair in January and when they refused to repair in March).

Just waiting for them to reply again.

[flimes]

Just had a phone call from Trade Centre UK, and they've asked for me to take car back to them so their can examine it and report it to management to see if it is rejectable under the CRA 2015.

They said they couldn't give me a timeframe in which the they can inspect the vehicle and also unable to provide me with a courtesy car while they have our car.

My worry is they'll delay it examining for in order for me to run out of time to reject it or they'll temporally fix the problem so it goes over the rejection period or according to some reviews I've found, they may claim the faults are due to wear and tear.

Any advice on my rights or on the next steps to take ? - should I just try Section 75 with the credit card company or will they just tell me to allow Trade Centre to inspect the car.

Thank you

[Pezza54]

Start a S75 claim with your CCC
You gave the dealer a chance to repair the car and he failed. Provide the ccc with details of what has happened and state your rights to reject the car under CRA 2015 You should write that the dealer is refusing your legal right to reject the car and wants the car returned to the garage again. Unreasonable delays by the dealer are causing you significant inconvenience. Make sure you let the ccc know how you purchased the car.
Be prepared for the ccc to delay your claim. Keep a diary note of the dates. You may end up having to make a complaint about the ccc with the FOS

[des8]

The dealer does have the right to examine the car prior to accepting the rejection.
However it is for him to arrange collection of the vehicle at his expense and the refund should be "without undue delay" in the words of CRA2015

[flimes]

The dealer does have the right to examine the car prior to accepting the rejection.
However it is for him to arrange collection of the vehicle at his expense and the refund should be "without undue delay" in the words of CRA2015

I guess I'll have to let them inspect the car in order to give the CCC last reasons to reject my claim.

Is the following letter okay to send to the trader.

Good Afternoon.


Further to your telephone conversation on Friday 10th May 2024 where you stated I needed to bring the above vehicle back to yourselves, in order for your engineers to examine it to see whether I can reject it under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

You were also unable to give me a timescale of how long it would take for your inspection and refund - or provide me with a courtesy vehicle while you inspected my vehicle.

I have been advised to inform you that under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 it is your responsibility to collect the vehicle at your expense and refund issued without undue delay.

Please arrange a suitable time to collect the vehicle. (My husband is available after 9.00am every day or if you require me to be present then collection needs to be after 5.00pm).

I must inform you that vehicle is due a service and MOT towards the end of this month (I am not willing to do spend more money an a faulty vehicle) and will be declared SORN after the MOT expires

Please email me the time and date you wish to collect the vehicle and what documents you will require such as the V5 document.

In order to keep a paper trail all further communication should be conducted by email, as this will be used as evidence if we cannot come to an agreement in this matter.

Thank you once again to you both for your advice and patients.

[des8]

Fine, but you can still start the sec75 claim against the CC issuer as suggested by Pezza in post 9.
You will of course only be refunded once