Defence Assistance - Claim For Car Hire Agreement - Company LTD - URGENT

[TomB999]

I could not keep up with car payments ; the company terminated the agreement ; the letter turned up a day before the person sent to pickup the car early morning. the person who came was very polite.
had about an hour long conversation and they agreed to give me another week, i did not have a chance to open the letter so wasnt aware.

Handed over the car to them took pictures. sent pictures to the company did not hear anything back.

They claim they sent a default notice which i don't recollect receiving.

Agreement was for 4 years.

The agreement was terminated by the company after 2 yrs 3 months and few more days

Attached a copy of guarantee and indemnity with the claim

I received a letter before action to which I replied with prove the debt ; did not get a response and they filed to money claim without response.

The letter I received for payments I replied via email for months and chased them multiple times as the cost were high for no reason in addition to the missed payments.

They confirmed the price they sold car for; so they lost 500£ from the sale price in 2 years 3 month

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In the claim
======================
this is claim for monies due pursuant to a terminated unregulated hire agreement between claimant and the first defendant. ( the first defendant listed is my ltd company) the claim is against the second defendant in pursuant to the terms of guarantee and indemnity

they put down the monthly totals missed.

They put 1k£ loss of sale ( no details provided but i do remember emailing them a number of times to get details of how they come up with this figure as the care was well under the mileage i took and was in great condition )

just under 500£ agent fee

late payment fee 35£

they put down 6k early termination fee.

i did not terminate the contract they did without any notice or warning ; i had been in communication with them on email.

its been the company style not to respond to email and then escalate quickly.

i sent the last email reminder to get back to be after 3 months of chasing on a response.

they got the mileage wrong went back and forth on getting the mileage

i have confirmation from the company of requesting the invoice breakdown but never heard back.

echat11
R0b

atticus

[atticus]

So how can we help you?

[R0b]

Hi

I cannot see a question in your post so I am not sure what you want me to say. Do you need help with anything?

[TomB999]

So how can we help you?

thank you for your reply ; i need your help for preparing defence pls

is the early termination fee usually this high ?

can a car hire company do this after i have responded to the pre action letter asking for proof.

i chased them a number of times but they failed to get back to me ; how does that help my case ?

they have written in the claim did not get a satisfactory response ?


with this being a company hire as oppose to personal hire how is this different ?

what information should i ask for apart from the breakdown of the invoice.

do cca , cpr31.14 , sar apply

what the best way to defend and not get a ccj ?

i would have been prepared to setup a payment plan with them earlier but they never got back to me. how can i explain this to say it unfair or void ?

[TomB999]

Hi

I cannot see a question in your post so I am not sure what you want me to say. Do you need help with anything?

Yes please ;need your help for preparing defence pls

is the early termination fee usually this high ? 6k£

can a car hire company goto money claim after i have responded to the pre action letter asking for proof. i also chased them a number of times on email but they failed to get back to me; the last email i have from them is that they will get back to me with invoice breakdown but never replied ; how does that help my case ?

they have written in the claim did not get a satisfactory response ?

with this being a company hire as oppose to personal hire how is this different ?

what information should i ask for apart from the breakdown of the invoice.

do cca , cpr31.14 , sar apply

what the best way to defend and not get a ccj ?

i would have been prepared to setup a payment plan with them earlier but they never got back to me. how can i explain this to say it unfair or void ?

[TomB999]

Can you kindly help URGENTLY I have so submit in a few days?

echat11

R0b

atticus


need your help for preparing defence for the above pls?

is the early termination fee usually this high ? 6k£

can a car hire company goto money claim after i have responded to the pre action letter asking for proof. i also chased them a number of times on email but they failed to get back to me; the last email i have from them is that they will get back to me with invoice breakdown but they never replied ; how does that help my case ?

they have written in the claim did not get a satisfactory response ?

with this being a company car hire as oppose to personal hire how is this different ?

what information should i ask for apart from the breakdown of the invoice.

do cca , cpr31.14 , sar apply in my case ?

what the best way to defend and not get a ccj ?

i would have been prepared to setup a payment plan with them earlier but they never got back to me. how can i explain this to say it unfair or void ?

[R0b]

Hi

I'm afraid I don't think there is much I can help with Since you are at such a late stage for filing a defence. It would appear the agreement is an unregulated agreement so a CCA request would not be applicable and whilst you can do a subject access request, that would only be for information the creditor holds about you, not the company. You could try to make a CPR 31.14 request but if the sum is less than £10k the claimant's solicitors are likely to reject that (rightly or wrongly).

It would also appear that you haven't supplied a full copy of the particulars of claim, rather you have just presented what you think we need to see which is not helpful to us as we much prefer the full (redacted) version. It also looks like the claimant is suing both the company and you personally so in effect there would need to be two defences filed, one for the company and one for you. Otherwise, if you fail to file a defence for the company, the claimant could request default judgment.

As for a defence, I have no clue since you haven't offered any information except te fact that the claimant failed to reply back to you in pre-action correspondence and that you sent a prove it letter (which is really not helpful either).

The fees being claimed will depend on the contract terms, value of the vehicle, when it was sold and how it was sold. If you defaulted on your agreement and the creditor terminated the agreement for your breach, then they will be usually entitled to an early termination fee, which is usually made up of the the total remaining fees outstanding, less the value it sold fold, any interest deducted for the remainder of the term and after those deductions you are left with the final value.

So far as I can see, you have no defence other than arguing that the sums being claimed do not appear to be correct and you require them to prove their losses. That's likely to lead to a CCJ if you don't come to an agreement pretty quickly.

An alternative would be to make an application to the court to stay proceedings on the basis that the claimant failed to properly engage in the pre-action protocols i.e. you requested further information about the fees and they ignored you in favour of issuing a claim. You could ask for a stay of 3 months for both sides to engage in active settlement discussions but there is usually a cost attached for that which is £275 (per defendant), unless you personally qualify for a reduction in fees which you need to complete online.

Not that I want to s*** on you more but defences relating to personal guarantees are complex and usually require proper legal advice as there are various ways the guarantee may or may not be enforceable and it starts by looking at the terms of the guarantee.

I'm sorry it's not what you want to hear but this is not a straightforward claim and you would do well to seek some independent legal advice but failing that, you could ask the other side for an extension of time to file a defence given that you are a litigant in person under CPR 15.5, admit the claim which could result in a CCJ or make an application to the court and at least buy you some breathing space to negotiate whilst that application makes its way through the system.

[TomB999]

Can you kindly help URGENTLY ?

echat11


R0b
atticus

my father in law passed away on 28 jul i am also suffering from high BP 180/110 for the past which is rendering me unable to work on the defence. the only choice i have is to lie down and try rest.

my hearing is on 14 next week and i spent last night in A&E.

i have the letter from GP for the AE and parking paid in A&E . i also need legal special advice

also they violated terms of contract of not offering me to drop the car off after termination and i had notice of termination on the day i had the repossession agent come at my door to take the car away

the repossession agent also did not give any notice infact the letter was recieved the next day

i need more time to prepare defence

how can i ask the judge to adjourn the hearing in these circumstances and also get proper legal advice.

i need to submit defence for both me and company . i am not using the company so looking at disolving it. i am unemployed and looking for work on UC and hardly able to meet my gorcery and rent.

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DEFENCE AND COUNTERCLAIM

The Defendants deny that they are liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed or any sum at all and say as follows:

1. Save as expressly admitted herein, all allegations in the Particulars of Claim are denied.
2. Regulatory Status and Enforceability of the Agreement: 2.1 The Defendants aver that the hire agreement dated 1 October 2019 (the "Agreement") is not an unregulated agreement as claimed by the Claimant. 2.2 The Agreement contains multiple references to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Financial Conduct Authority regulation, contradicting its purported unregulated status. 2.3 The accompanying guarantee is explicitly "subject to the Consumer Credit Act 1974". 2.4 The Defendants contend that this misrepresentation of the Agreement's regulatory status renders it unenforceable, drawing on the principles established in Dimond v Lovell [2002] 1 AC 384 regarding the importance of compliance with consumer credit legislation. 2.5 If the Agreement is found to be regulated, the Defendants aver that it fails to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and is therefore unenforceable without a court order.
3. Invalidity of Termination and Improper Vehicle Recovery: 3.1 The Defendants deny that the Agreement was validly terminated on 20 January 2022 as alleged by the Claimant. 3.2 The Claimant failed to follow the termination process outlined in the Agreement, specifically: a) Proper notice was not given as required by the Agreement. b) The Claimant failed to specify an address for the return of the vehicle as required by clause 7.3 of the Agreement. 3.3 The Claimant continued to invoice and communicate regarding the Agreement after the purported termination date, including communications on 4 February 2023, 16 February 2023, and 9 May 2023. 3.4 The Defendants aver that the Claimant's attempt at repossession, rather than allowing the Defendants to return the vehicle as per the Agreement terms, was improper and potentially unlawful. 3.5 The Defendants rely on the email dated 30 January 2022, demonstrating their attempt to arrange for the proper return of the vehicle, which was ignored by the Claimant.
4. Dispute of Claimed Amount and Mileage Discrepancy: 4.1 The Defendants put the Claimant to strict proof of the alleged debt of £9,593.84. 4.2 The Defendants specifically challenge: a) The early termination fee of £5,858.92 as excessive and potentially unfair under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. b) Any excess mileage charges, given the significant discrepancy in recorded mileage. 4.3 The Defendants aver that the actual mileage at the point of delivery was 11,089 miles, not 85,000 miles as claimed by the Claimant. 4.4 This substantial mileage discrepancy of approximately 74,000 miles calls into question the accuracy and reliability of all the Claimant's calculations and records. 4.5 The Defendants rely on the principle established in Dimond v Lovell that only reasonable charges can be recovered, not inflated or erroneous charges.
5. Failure to Allow Proper Vehicle Return: 5.1 The Defendants contend that the Claimant breached the Agreement by failing to allow the Defendants to return the vehicle as stipulated in clause 7.3 of the Agreement. 5.2 The Defendants made attempts to arrange for the return of the vehicle, as evidenced by the email dated 30 January 2022. 5.3 The Claimant's failure to provide a specified address for return and subsequent attempt at repossession deprived the Defendants of their contractual right to return the vehicle in an orderly manner. 5.4 This failure by the Claimant constitutes a breach of the Agreement and has caused the Defendants undue stress and potential financial loss. 5.5 The Defendants aver that any charges related to the recovery of the vehicle should be void, as the Claimant's actions prevented the Defendants from exercising their right to return the vehicle as per the Agreement.
6. Failure to Provide Information and Breach of Duty: 6.1 The Defendants contend that the Claimant has failed to provide crucial information despite multiple requests, including: a) Detailed breakdown of all charges. b) Explanation of the vehicle's projected cost and actual sale price. c) Clarification on the mileage discrepancy. 6.2 This failure constitutes a breach of the Claimant's duty of transparency and fairness. 6.3 The Defendants rely on emails dated 4 February 2023, 17 February 2023, and 9 May 2023 as evidence of their repeated requests for information and the Claimant's failure to respond adequately.
7. Unenforceability of the Guarantee: 7.1 The Second Defendant avers that the guarantee is unenforceable due to: a) Misrepresentation of the main Agreement's regulatory status. b) Unfair terms under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, particularly the broad and unlimited nature of the guarantor's liability. c) Failure by the Claimant to follow proper notice procedures as required by the guarantee. 7.2 The guarantee allows for variations to the main Agreement without the guarantor's consent, which the Second Defendant contends is unfair and potentially discharges the guarantee. 7.3 The Second Defendant relies on the principles established in cases such as Dimond v Lovell and Plevin v Paragon Personal Finance Ltd [2014] UKSC 61 regarding the importance of fairness in credit agreements and related guarantees.
8. Breach of Pre-Action Protocol: 8.1 The Defendants aver that the Claimant failed to follow the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims by not providing clear breakdowns of the debt and not responding adequately to the Defendants' inquiries. 8.2 This failure has prejudiced the Defendants' ability to properly assess and respond to the claim.
9. Principle of No Betterment: 9.1 The Defendants contend that the Claimant's claim, if successful, would put them in a better position than if the Agreement had run its course normally, contrary to the principle established in Dimond v Lovell. 9.2 The Defendants aver that any recovery by the Claimant should be limited to their actual loss, not any inflated or punitive charges.
10. Counterclaim: 10.1 The Defendants counterclaim for: a) Damages for misrepresentation regarding the regulatory status of the Agreement. b) Repayment of any excess charges resulting from the mileage discrepancy. c) Compensation for distress and inconvenience caused by the Claimant's failures in communication and transparency. d) Damages for the Claimant's breach of contract in failing to allow proper return of the vehicle.
11. In light of the above, the Defendants request that the Court: a) Dismiss the claim in its entirety; or b) Declare the Agreement and guarantee unenforceable; or c) Substantially reduce any amount found to be due, taking into account the Claimant's breaches and failures; and d) Grant judgment on the Defendants' counterclaim.
12. The Defendants reserve the right to amend this Defence upon disclosure of further documentation by the Claimant.

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence and Counterclaim are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.
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[echat11]

Sorry for your loss.

You need to act quickly, because of your financial situation you can get help with Court costs i.e.fee for N244.

Email the application / evidence to the Court. Make sure you have the right email address for the Court and the Creditor's solicitor.

The Judge / Court would need a very good reason to adjourn the Hearing, so provide full details passing of your father, ill health etc / with evidence.

Link posted for information only - https://www.bishopandsewell.co.uk/20...20will%20agree.

[TomB999]

echat11 for defence on legal aid for my circumstance of unregulated car hire what would be the best firm to represent around burnley

what points can i look at in the meantime pls for witness statement and defence

[echat11]

echat11 for defence on legal aid for my circumstance of unregulated car hire what would be the best firm to represent around burnley

what points can i look at in the meantime pls for witness statement and defence

You can try 'JustBeagle' on the left hand side. With Legal Aid, make sure you meet all the criteria.
You know the facts / strengths of your case, no doubt a specialist solicitor can assist you.

[TomB999]

echat11 thank you for your guidance
can you point in the direction of online cases websites where i xan study cases similar to mine and books
i am trying to locate a solicitor

[echat11]

https://www.bailii.org/

Google maybe easier.