Fighting a losing battle

[PIKEO]

Hello my friendly, Beagles,

it has been a while since I visited this forum and I wanted to share with you all what my partner and I have been going through for the last 5 months. My fiancee part exchanged her car with a local dealership and after the third day of owning the new car, she noticed that on idle, the car was misfiring and experiencing a lot of performance issues, i.e, turbo lag, she contacted the dealership and they told us to bring it back so they can take a look at it, during this time an engine management light came on the dash but they told us it was still okay to use. They had the car in the garage for 3 days, causing my partner to lose 3 days of work, they told her that the issue was a DPF filter needed and that they had calibrated this and it would take up to two weeks until we noticed any changes with the issue. Now this did not seem right to me, but I am no mechanic, so I called a local Mazda Main Dealership and I spoke on the phone to a head engineer, he told me to get in touch with our finance company after our conversation as his words were, "they seem to be trying to buy some time", so after our call I did exactly that, the finance company thanked us for letting them know and told us to keep them updated.
11-days have now passed since the car had been to the garage and still no change, so we called the dealership back and told them that there was no change, they told me that they would book it in Mazda which was the one we had already been in contact with, I did make the garage aware that we had been speaking with them on the phone. He said he would book it first thing in the morning, but he never and we had to book it ourselves otherwise we would miss the next slot as the Mazda dealership was extremely busy, so we booked it for the 21st of February, the Mazda dealership ran a diagnostic session and found that an exhaust pressure sensor was faulty and not working correctly, the asked the garage for the go-ahead to replace this part and they allowed this. After this was carried out, the engineers at Mazda told us that they wanted to carry out another diagnostic session to check for further issues for carbon build-up etc and when they called the garage they told them that they were not going to pay for any further sessions or work to be done to the vehicle and the owner was very abrupt on the phone to the receptionist at Mazda. So we drove straight back to the garage and asked them why they were not prepared to carry out further checks and they told us that they have already spent hundreds of pounds fixing the issue that Mazda found and were not going to do more, they said it was fixed and nothing else is wrong with it. So we just left the garage thinking that we couldn't make them do anything else. The car did seem to be resolved but my fiancee felt uneasy about it and low and behold less than a month later she noticed a change in the car's performance, third and fourth gears were losing power, so we got back in touch with them and they told us to bring it back in so we could show them the issue, we took the car salesman out in it and he told us there was nothing wrong even though he didn't drive it and said it was a normal performance. We were dumbfounded and didn't know what to do as it was definitely not right. Weeks went by and it got worse, my fiancee got back in touch with them and they told us that nothing was wrong and refused to take a look at it, we got back in touch with the finance company and told them that they were refusing to do anything, so the finance company said they would get an independent inspection carried out on the vehicle to determine that the vehicle was faulty and to determine who was liable for the repairs. The following week the inspection was carried out and the inspector told me that it was defiantly a drastic problem with the car and said he would write up the report and send it to the finance company. The report determined that the garage was liable and what they thought the issue was, the finance company then relayed this back to the garage and they agreed to carry out the work, we brought it to the attention of the finance company that they were not capable of carrying out the work and it should go back to Mazda but they told us that it is up to them who repairs it. We had the car booked in with them this Thursday but when my fiancee rang the garage today to find out the exact time he told her he knew nothing about it, we are going around in circles and we are approaching the 6-month mark, we asked the finance company can we reject the car but they told not unless they fail to fix the issue, I argued that they have already failed to fix the issue but they said they haven't attempted to, but surely they have when the original work was carried out but stopped any further diagnostics to be done, I have spoken to local solicitors today and they agreed with me and have an appointment with them next Tuesday, so fingers crossed they can help us reject this car so my fiancee can start fresh.

Wow, that was a lot of detail there, sorry, but just wanted for you guys to see your thoughts on this, it's gone on too long and we just want closure, I have taken over a lot of this because of my partners stress and anxiety which greatly affects her medical conditions, I appreciate any kind of feedback and thank you in advance to whom may read all the above, thanks once again for providing us with this platform and hope to hear back from someone soon,

best regards

Paul

[des8]

I would have told the finance house months ago that I was rejecting the car and failure to respond within two weeks would lead to me initiating a court claim without further notice!

You are instructing a solicitor, so what was purchase price, car model, age and mileage?
Other than finance, did you use a credit or debit card to e.g pay a deposit?

Solicitor's costs versus value of claim?????????? do you have legal protection coverage on your household policy which might cover those costs?

[Pezza54]

Yes certainly looks a strong case to reject the car. Fortunately your claim is against the finance company, not the dealer, who could try to keep the car and your money.
If your claim is over £10k the case should be allocated to the fast track and if you win you will be able to reclaim your legal costs.

[PIKEO]

I would have told the finance house months ago that I was rejecting the car and failure to respond within two weeks would lead to me initiating a court claim without further notice!

You are instructing a solicitor, so what was purchase price, car model, age and mileage?
Other than finance, did you use a credit or debit card to e.g pay a deposit?

Solicitor's costs versus value of claim?????????? do you have legal protection coverage on your household policy which might cover those costs?

Hello, sorry for the late response, we have been dealing with some developments in this dispute but I will first address the above.

Purchase price: £9100.00
Car model: Mazda CX-5 2.2 TD
Vehicles registration date: 30/09/2013
Mileage: 76000

We paid a cash deposit of £500 to offset the negative equity of the part exchange car and we don't have any insurance to cover the costs of legal hire.

[des8]

So what did the solicitor advise?

As your claim will be under £10000, if you proceed to court your solicitor's cost will not be recoverable when you win

[PIKEO]

Okay, since I last wrote the original thread, we have been back and forth with the garage and finance company, so basically, I continued to argue the fact that they already had the car for 3 days prior to them sending it to Mazda for its repair of the exhaust pressure sensor, they turned around and told me because they don't have any evidence of this from the garage and we don't have anything in writing about the car been with them for 3 days we can't count that as a failure to fix, I said, we told you right in the beginning over the phone but she said she can't use that as evidence. She said if I can get this in writing from the garage then we can certainly look at refusing the car.
So I proceeded to ask the garage for this evidence and to which their reply was, "why do you want to know that for as it is irrelevant to the current situation" I said I am entitled to know and we want it in writing/email, this was at the beginning of this week, 2 days pass by and we receive nothing, so we proceed to take the car to the garage for them to carry out the diagnostics as they agreed with the finance company, this was my opportunity to ask them face to face for the evidence in writing, but the owner was not present, the mechanic told us she would be in later. Even though the car was supposed to be diagnosed that day, he turned around and told us that we might as well bring it back Monday when the car was supposed to be staying with them for the duration of the week for repairs etc.
So we agreed and left, we were in contact with the owner asking at what point she would be back in the office so we could continue to seek this evidence, she told us late afternoon so we went back unannounced and she was there, so I sat down calm and collect and proceeded to request the information in writing, she argued with me and verbally assaulted me, then called in her staff to try and get me to leave the office, I stayed seated demanding the information as we continued to escalate the situation verbally, the men got in my face, the mechanic stinking of drink, I eventually leave the office due to my fiancee becoming very distraught and upset by our actions and we leave, I call contact the finance company straight away telling them of what had just happened and I told them they will have to get the information from them as they are withholding evidence of the work they originally carried out, but they said they can't do anything about it (BARRIER NUMBER 1). We are dumbfounded and told them that we are no longer letting the garage to carry out any repairs to our vehicle as they are untrustworthy and incompetent, they said they have the right to repair, I replied to them about the Mazda repair session and said, "right", if I get Mazda to confirm that it is a failure of repair then we can proceed to use that as a right to refuse the car, she agreed they can look into it.
So we go to the Mazda dealership in the hope that they can support our claim and they agreed to speak with them over the phone to the finance company to explain exactly what went on when they had the car for that period of two days as they don't understand why the Scoita inspection says that when they replaced the exhaust pressure sensor and wanted to carry out further diagnostics sessions and the garage refused further work that this is not deemed as failure to repair but a misdiagnose.
So, great, we call the finance company straight away and they agree to contact Mazda and speak with the team there, a few hours go by and nothing, so I call the finance company back, and she then tells me that she has spoken with her manager and because they don't deal with Mazda directly, then she can't just speak with them over the phone and it is up to Mazda to put in writing for us to forward to them (BARRIER NUMBER 2), I was losing my mind, so spoke back with Mazda, and bless the souls they agree to get it all in writing to help us as they know everything we have been going through for the last 5 months and that they are factual.

Wow, a few days wrapped up in several paragraphs, sorry, it is just a lot of detail, we getting amazing support from the team at Mazda and friends and family around us, we are not giving up, no chance, I am just waiting on the email from, Mazda now, hopefully, we will have something on Monday and I will get that straight over to Scotia and the finance company, with all these dealings, it has lead to my poor fiancee becoming really ill with the stress and effecting her medical condition of IBS, this has got to stop and this is the main reason why I have taken over the whole situation otherwise she would have just rolled over and we would probably have been paying for the repairs ourselves, which when we spoke with the guys at Mazda, they said if it is the DPF and carbon build-up then it will more than likely be in the thousands to put right, the finance company and garage must know how much it is going to be and we said to the finance company the only way we would keep the car if the work was carried out by Mazda themselves, not some incompetent garage, they said that would be classed as a Betterment (BARRIER NUMBER 3). I told her it is not a betterment but a repair of high standards to which we are entitled too, but she continued to knock us down.
I will update this thread next week when we get back to them with Mazda's report and evidence, thank you all for treading and your responses, take care

best regards

[PIKEO]

So what did the solicitor advise?

As your claim will be under £10000, if you proceed to court your solicitor's cost will not be recoverable when you win

Sorry, our meeting with them is not until this Tuesday

[PIKEO]

A friend of the family is helping us now too, he said if we still get no joy next week, then log an official complaint with the finance company and get in touch with the FCA. Within his profession, he deals with these situations every day and knows we have a massive case of getting this refused, so we can only thank him for his support and continue to fight on!

[des8]

I wouldn't be faffing around, but just bang in a letter before claim and 2 weeks later if no movement initiate a court claim.
But your decision

[Pezza54]

Please be aware that if you decide to reject the car you should write to the dealer/finance company letting them know the car is available for collection at a time that suits you. The solicitor should advise you about this on Tuesday.

[Pezza54]

Sorry should have wrote unless the finance agreement states the buyer must return the car to the dealer.

[PIKEO]

Hello, guys,

just a quick update, been back on the phone to log an official complaint with the finance company only to be told that we already have had this in place since the 1st of June, so much going on it is hard to keep track of everything, so that said I am still being persistent with wanting to reject the car and they are telling me I can't unless I have sufficient evidence that the garage has had a failed attempt of repair even though we feel they have had two failed attempts now.
Now the engine management light has come back on so my fiancee is now without a car for her job as a care support worker which could potentially affect the lives of her vulnerable service users and put us at a greater diminish in income and even affect her job. I have just emailed the finance company suggesting that they take great urgency in providing her with suitable transportation in order for her to continue her job role before the consequences of her job and income are greatly affected, just waiting for my call to be returned now.

So my next steps, are still waiting for the Mazda dealership to get back to me with their written statement of why it should be classed as a failure to repair and not a misdiagnosis, can you recommend anything else we should be doing now

many thanks in advance, Paul

[Pezza54]

The solicitor should advise you on all the costs you can claim including alternative transport for work. Possibly a hire car if the finance company fail to provide a replacement car.
For the meeting with the solicitor you should list in date order what happened with the date at the start of each paragraph.
Also a list of questions. Easy to forget to ask at the time.
Let us know how you get on. I suspect the solicitor will try to make the claim over £10k

[PIKEO]

Hey guys,

just an update for you guys, our friends at the main dealer came through for us and wrote us a "statement of events" from when they had the car with them, so that has been forwarded to the finance company and we are awaiting to hear back from them, we don't think it will change anything but you just never know. Today we had a phone call appointment with the local solicitors and to my disappointment, he didn't seem that he had much interest in listening to my questions and kept repeating himself throughout our phone call, He was saying we should ask Mazda to either carry out an independent inspection to reveal what is wrong with the car or a statement of what they think is wrong, now, this to me is just going to waste more of our time and drag it out even longer than we need to, I am going to stick with my plan of sending an email of our Final Refusal of the car, I have just finished writing that up this evening after work and plan on sending that to the finance company in the morning after the school run. Many thanks to you all for your continued response and support

[Pezza54]

Sorry to hear the solicitor was unhelpful. Hope Mazda's report to the finance company lets you either reject the car or allows Mazda to fix the faults.
It sounds like you and your partner have been given a lot of inconvenience, a breach of CRA 2015 in itself.
The car probably needs a new DPF and as this is very expensive it wouldn't surprise me if you continue to face delays.
Des8 is right. You should start a court claim with a letter before action asap.
My advice is not to waste time with a complaint to the finance company followed by a case with the FCA.
Your partner was sold a car with a major fault and the dealer was kindly given a chance to repair it. She could have rejected the car within 30 days. Whilst the dealer was attempting the repair your partner should have been lent a courtesy car so she could carry on working.