Tweet
Abusive car trader - I have to go back there tomorrow (long story)
Hello. I'm desperate for urgent some legal advice please. This is a long story...
There is no identifying info in my post about the person I am discussing.
I have called so many solicitors and also referral phone numbers given by Civil Aid Advice today, and relayed the story endlessly. All say they can’t help or advise me.
Unfortunately I have little time to decide what to do in my safest / best interests.
I’ve just wrote out the whole story and it took 3.5 x word doc pages, so I’ve condensed it best I can. I apologise for the length still...
I bought a used car from a trader who owns a car repair business.
After many problems occurred with the car that the trader couldn't or wouldn't fix, he said there was nothing wrong. I couldn’t take the car back with continual serious fault reasons.
I asked by message if they would accept the car back for a full refund – though the car was already in his possession (they have had the car with them since 4th May when it was taken to their premises by breakdown truck. I was loaned a 2008 Smart car, same day. I’ve used it twice since then, and it’s not been used for a week.
The trader has been verbally aggressive throughout. This needs to be mentioned, as I have tippy-toed around him and been very careful how I speak. I have always remained polite, but I fear him.
After messaging with my request, I called next day to see if they had received the message, as they only had a ‘message us’ form on their website. This gave me no proof of sending, so I tried to call the trader, who put the phone down on me as soon as I spoke, saying they no longer wished to speak to me.
Next day I received an email from them that states:
I do not wish to continue any further debate with you regarding this transaction and therefore, I am fully cancelling any agreement or understanding we may have had.
With Immediate effect:-
- Return the loaned vehicle.
- You will return all vehicle documents / receipts / invoices / spare Key card and the FULL V5 document.
- You will cease using our loan vehicle – until and only the day of returning the vehicle to us.
- The loan vehicle will be returned in “as supplied” condition.
- You Will attend our business premises on Wed 17th May, 2023 __am or alternatively Wed __ May 2023 __am.
You will apply your bank details to this email and return before the appointment – the full balance of £____.00 will be transferred to this account before the end of business that day.
You will remove all / any vehicle contents from our storage facility at the time of appointment otherwise they will be immediately disposed of. (see below about this)
I called the Consumer Helpline yesterday and a case was opened / passed to Trading Standards for many reasons – they guided me.
I also was advised to call the Police on 101, and have the threat of destruction / disposal of my property logged, because if anything else happens, it is on record.
The Police call handler asked for the traders details and looked them up. They then said I need to go their garage with someone, but that if I go alone, “take your phone and call 999 immediately if anything escalates at all”
I tried so hard yesterday to find someone who can come with me.
Friends are at work, and the only family member available is my daughter who would have to come with her newborn baby, but she can only be at the traders address at 1pm.
I had no choice other than to politely email him yesterday. I wrote:
While I appreciate that you have agreed to accept the car back, can I have an agreement that you will transfer the £____ refund whilst I am at your premises please? I am happy to give you the requested full / intact V5 document at the same time.
Myself and my daughter will then immediately remove my personal contents from inside the car, and leave your premises.
I am very keen to retrieve all of my personal effects, which amongst other items, include a toddlers car seat, isofix base and associated guiding connectors, so I ask that they and all other of my items are not disposed of please.
I need to get a lift home from X town to X town with the personal items, but my daughter now cannot be with me to assist until 1pm.
(I have only just learned of this, so I am giving you notice as soon as possible)
For this reason, can I ask for a change of time to meet with you on Wednesday 17th May from 11am to 1pm please?
The trader hadn’t responded by almost 4pm today, so my son-in-law called him remining polite.
The responses were odd and concerning...
My SIL introduced himself, and the trader was heard to laugh.
The trader then said they won’t be at the premises themselves tomorrow, but that his son will be there to deal with matters at 1pm.
SIL said: “Will you refund my MIL before she leaves your premises please?”
The answer was no, and that at some point a button would be pressed later that day to issue the bank transfer refund. They added: “If your Mother in law wants to sit outside and wait for the refund to appear, that’s up to her, We won’t be sitting around waiting for her to tell us she’s received it”
SIL said: “Her items inside her car, are they still in there ready to collect?”
The answer was “No, they are packaged up and waiting to go”
That was the end of the conversation.
I’m stuck whichever way I look at it. The car is with him. He has my money, and wants a full intact V5 handed over.
The trader has originally said, and again today a bank transfer will not be actioned whilst I am there.
He has chosen two dates I can attend with an exact time, but will not be there themselves.
I have never been asked if the child's car seat and it’s base, or my effects could be handled / removed from my car, and I had stated my keenness to get the items back. I’m so anxious and upset, I can’t even remember every item in my car's boot.
Looking back at the trader’s first response, everything had been removed at the point of him agreeing to refund me for the car anyway, so I had no opportunity to get the items prior. He refuses to speak to me also.
Writing this, I realised I can’t use the toddlers car seat again. I can’t disprove it’s not been thrown about and the styrene inside is not damaged (which can’t be seen if lightly fractured) So the car seat is lost to me anyway.
I’ve also thought about my car insurance. I don’t even know where to start with that. I don’t even know where the car is. It won’t be at the premises tomorrow and I won’t see it again.
Options are:
We go tomorrow, give the loaned car back which is no issue as it’s been sat unused for a week, deal with someone who has had nothing to do with the car sale at all, get back the personal possessions that we can, and hand over the full V5 document. The get out fast.
Or
We don’t go and everything of mine from my car is destroyed.
I have good reason to believe the refund will not be forthcoming either way.
Can someone please help. I’ve tried so many legal avenues today and no one can help me. I have to decide what to do for the morning.
Thank you and again, I’m sorry this is so long in length.
There is no identifying info in my post about the person I am discussing.
I have called so many solicitors and also referral phone numbers given by Civil Aid Advice today, and relayed the story endlessly. All say they can’t help or advise me.
Unfortunately I have little time to decide what to do in my safest / best interests.
I’ve just wrote out the whole story and it took 3.5 x word doc pages, so I’ve condensed it best I can. I apologise for the length still...
I bought a used car from a trader who owns a car repair business.
After many problems occurred with the car that the trader couldn't or wouldn't fix, he said there was nothing wrong. I couldn’t take the car back with continual serious fault reasons.
I asked by message if they would accept the car back for a full refund – though the car was already in his possession (they have had the car with them since 4th May when it was taken to their premises by breakdown truck. I was loaned a 2008 Smart car, same day. I’ve used it twice since then, and it’s not been used for a week.
The trader has been verbally aggressive throughout. This needs to be mentioned, as I have tippy-toed around him and been very careful how I speak. I have always remained polite, but I fear him.
After messaging with my request, I called next day to see if they had received the message, as they only had a ‘message us’ form on their website. This gave me no proof of sending, so I tried to call the trader, who put the phone down on me as soon as I spoke, saying they no longer wished to speak to me.
Next day I received an email from them that states:
I do not wish to continue any further debate with you regarding this transaction and therefore, I am fully cancelling any agreement or understanding we may have had.
With Immediate effect:-
- Return the loaned vehicle.
- You will return all vehicle documents / receipts / invoices / spare Key card and the FULL V5 document.
- You will cease using our loan vehicle – until and only the day of returning the vehicle to us.
- The loan vehicle will be returned in “as supplied” condition.
- You Will attend our business premises on Wed 17th May, 2023 __am or alternatively Wed __ May 2023 __am.
You will apply your bank details to this email and return before the appointment – the full balance of £____.00 will be transferred to this account before the end of business that day.
You will remove all / any vehicle contents from our storage facility at the time of appointment otherwise they will be immediately disposed of. (see below about this)
I called the Consumer Helpline yesterday and a case was opened / passed to Trading Standards for many reasons – they guided me.
I also was advised to call the Police on 101, and have the threat of destruction / disposal of my property logged, because if anything else happens, it is on record.
The Police call handler asked for the traders details and looked them up. They then said I need to go their garage with someone, but that if I go alone, “take your phone and call 999 immediately if anything escalates at all”
I tried so hard yesterday to find someone who can come with me.
Friends are at work, and the only family member available is my daughter who would have to come with her newborn baby, but she can only be at the traders address at 1pm.
I had no choice other than to politely email him yesterday. I wrote:
While I appreciate that you have agreed to accept the car back, can I have an agreement that you will transfer the £____ refund whilst I am at your premises please? I am happy to give you the requested full / intact V5 document at the same time.
Myself and my daughter will then immediately remove my personal contents from inside the car, and leave your premises.
I am very keen to retrieve all of my personal effects, which amongst other items, include a toddlers car seat, isofix base and associated guiding connectors, so I ask that they and all other of my items are not disposed of please.
I need to get a lift home from X town to X town with the personal items, but my daughter now cannot be with me to assist until 1pm.
(I have only just learned of this, so I am giving you notice as soon as possible)
For this reason, can I ask for a change of time to meet with you on Wednesday 17th May from 11am to 1pm please?
The trader hadn’t responded by almost 4pm today, so my son-in-law called him remining polite.
The responses were odd and concerning...
My SIL introduced himself, and the trader was heard to laugh.
The trader then said they won’t be at the premises themselves tomorrow, but that his son will be there to deal with matters at 1pm.
SIL said: “Will you refund my MIL before she leaves your premises please?”
The answer was no, and that at some point a button would be pressed later that day to issue the bank transfer refund. They added: “If your Mother in law wants to sit outside and wait for the refund to appear, that’s up to her, We won’t be sitting around waiting for her to tell us she’s received it”
SIL said: “Her items inside her car, are they still in there ready to collect?”
The answer was “No, they are packaged up and waiting to go”
That was the end of the conversation.
I’m stuck whichever way I look at it. The car is with him. He has my money, and wants a full intact V5 handed over.
The trader has originally said, and again today a bank transfer will not be actioned whilst I am there.
He has chosen two dates I can attend with an exact time, but will not be there themselves.
I have never been asked if the child's car seat and it’s base, or my effects could be handled / removed from my car, and I had stated my keenness to get the items back. I’m so anxious and upset, I can’t even remember every item in my car's boot.
Looking back at the trader’s first response, everything had been removed at the point of him agreeing to refund me for the car anyway, so I had no opportunity to get the items prior. He refuses to speak to me also.
Writing this, I realised I can’t use the toddlers car seat again. I can’t disprove it’s not been thrown about and the styrene inside is not damaged (which can’t be seen if lightly fractured) So the car seat is lost to me anyway.
I’ve also thought about my car insurance. I don’t even know where to start with that. I don’t even know where the car is. It won’t be at the premises tomorrow and I won’t see it again.
Options are:
We go tomorrow, give the loaned car back which is no issue as it’s been sat unused for a week, deal with someone who has had nothing to do with the car sale at all, get back the personal possessions that we can, and hand over the full V5 document. The get out fast.
Or
We don’t go and everything of mine from my car is destroyed.
I have good reason to believe the refund will not be forthcoming either way.
Can someone please help. I’ve tried so many legal avenues today and no one can help me. I have to decide what to do for the morning.
Thank you and again, I’m sorry this is so long in length.
Comment