VT trouble with Vauxhall finance.

[sheffy96]

Good evening. I am having abit of trouble with vauxhall finance. I have got to a point where I have had to come here for help, I have been using the temples and reading other posts from other members with responses etc. Basically I emailed vauxhall using the template for VT from the website.

They sent an automated email saying they had received it. I had no reply after around 10 days so I emailed them and got a reply. They sent me out there VT pack which they said I had to sign, i did not nor agree to this as I know how they works and how people fall into the trap and I wouldn't be covered under section 99. After a few back and forth emails of me fighting collection charges and damages ( to which they did knocked about 50% off the total price). Anyhow the car was 9 years old, 3 previous keepers and had about 81k on the clock. The car was in more than reasonable condition with all servicing done, any work that needed doing was done along with numerous jobs being done under warranty.

I also took Gap and extended warranty out, This was all included in the total price of the finance using the same agreement number. I have also found in my agreement which clearly states it all comes under the same section. I had a short fall of £143.53 which I paid asap (I paid £145) not that it makes any difference. After speaking with a women from the Recovery department she then passed it onto the complaints department. The letter was received today from the complaints department stating there final decisions and if I want to dispute it any further I either email the same lady in recovery or I go to FOS ( I dont want to go there yet ).

Even after trying to dispute the Gap,warranty and collection fee they are still trying to recover costs. Like many other I see on here they are referring to the BVRLA guidelines to give them a strict review of what is "fair and reasonable condition" They are now using the cca section 100 (4) I take it due to them using the BVRLA guide which as R0b has said is unreasonable.

So I will continue to fight this. They are also using the "you signed this under a legally binding contract" card. Now as I terminated under section 99 as far as I'm aware this invalidated this correct? I dont have access to a scanner so I cant copy what the letter said and it's also too long to type out ( 4 pages ) and for some reason wont let me upload pictures. So do I go to the FOS or still fight with recoverys? Also upon collection of the car via there agent on the paper bit I put " this is all wear and tear" however I DID NOT SIGN IT after looking on here.

I told the agent I was not going to sign anything and even took a picture ( time stamped and dated ) of the phone not being signed. When the report came back and I got sent it it looked like someone had tried to make a signature up for me. I also mentioned this to vauxhall but they just ignored it! What should my next step be?

Thanks. Luke

[R0b]

Hi Luke,

Your post one was big wall of text so I've broken it up, please use paragraphs for easy reading.

If you want to upload the contract, email admin@legalbeagles.info and I'm tagging Amethyst*so she knows its coming, but make sure to provide a link to your thread anyway just in case.

Given the age and mileage of the car, the BVRLA guidelines are certainly not appropriate and the FOS did confirm in one of their decisions that the BVRLA says the damage guide is intended to cover cars up to 3 years old.

Suggest you make a complaint to the FOS around this, there is an example template in the VT guide. Also look at the link below, 4th post down where there is the FOS decision around wear and tear, similar to your situation.

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...p-with-charges

[sheffy96]

Hi Rob.*

Sorry about that it was sent via my phone i do apolgise.*

I will send it over now. I will be sending pictures of what i got in the post from Vauxhall finance today and also a picture of my agreement.*

As i stated to them in a previous email the car had 3 previous owners before me and this should be taken into consideration. The damage to the wheels they are trying to claim is not actually scuff and scratches it is where the wheels are diamond cut and the water has got into the lacquer and has started to corrode slightly. I also mentioned to them it was was like it when i got the car along with the stone chips on the bonnet, they asked to see the appraisal from the garage i got it from however i never got one but told them they are more than welcome to contact the garage to see if they can get it from them.

They are trying to now charge me for incomplete service history, This is due to the book not having one stamp in there ( the most recent service ) however there was paperwork to prove this (the invoice) the car also underwent warranty work at the place it was serviced so the warranty company should be able to vouch for this as they would not authorize the repair unless the car was serviced which is understandable. the two prior services on the car were done at main dealer but the third one was done at an independent garage down the road from where i work.*

Please let me know what you think of the letters and how i can rebound/ go about it to the FOS, i will use the template and post it in here before i send it if that is okay?

[Amethyst]

*

[Amethyst]

[sheffy96]

Thankyou for posting them up Amethyst!*

[R0b]

My position hasn't changed since my first post, follow the complaints process. It will be up to them to explain why the guidelines used in the BVRLA are reasonable to apply to a car that's almost 10 years old.

If they don't uphold your complaint, take it to the FOS and then ask them to award you compensation for the inconvenience, stress, wasting people's time and failing to apply common sense.

[sheffy96]

Thanks for the reply R0b*

I will use the template for the complaint to FOS later, I will post it up later and get you to review it please?*

Will they also side with me on the gap and warranty as it falls under the same agreement and same direct debit so the 50% has* been paid.*

No doubt Vauxhall will try and say I signed there "VT pack" even tho I emailed them twice saying I didnt agree and still stuck to my guns and sent them the template letter from here. I also have proof I didnt agree to this via email.*

[sheffy96]

Formal complaint against Vauxhall Finance*
Agreement number: ......
*
Dear Sir or Madam
*I am writing to lodge a complaint against vauxhall finance.*
concerning end of contract charges following a voluntary termination of a hire-purchase agreement in accordance with Section 99(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The charges relate to a combination of vehicle damage and Gap and warranty insurance over and above the agreed contractual amount.*
I am seeking to challenge these charges on the basis that they are unfair and/or that vauxhall finance is not entitled to recover certain charges.

Nature of my complaint:
*I am writing to lodge a complaint against the above-mentioned company in relating to end of contract charges following a voluntary termination of a hire-purchase agreement in accordance with Section 99(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The charges relate to a combination of vehicle damage and gap and warranty insurance over and above the agreed contractual amount. I am seeking to challenge these charges on the basis that they are unfair or that vauxhall finance is not entitled to recover certain charges at all. I enclose a copy of vauxhall finances* final response, confirming that they do not uphold my complaint.*
Background:
I entered into a* Conditional sale agreement* on 30/08/2017 with Vauxhall finance. The contract was for a period of 60 months at a monthly instalment of £160.31. On 10/02/2020 I wrote to Vauxhall finance* and exercised my voluntary termination right in accordance with section 99(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Notice of termination was acknowledge by Vauxhall finance* on 18/02/20 . Following collection of the car, I received an invoice from Vauxhall finance* claiming to be owed £1150.11 (£143.19 was still for remaning*amount to bring me to my 50% but was paid upon the email)* for Gap and warranty* charges £536.92 however this fall under the same agreement number as the car was, i have also found on paperwork i have and will send a picture of that these are all under the same agreement.£419* for vehicle damage, The pirce of this did get dropped a further ammount after i mentioned the ages of the car. the amount was reduced by 50%. £60 for charges relating to Collection of the car. I do not agree that I should be liable to pay these charges.*Having terminated the agreement in accordance with Section 99(1) of the CCA 1974, Section 100(1) is to act as a backstop in that it serves as a limitation of liability for the benefit of the debtor. It imposes a statutory limit on the amount of liability owed by the debtor to the creditor under a hire-purchase agreement which is defined as one half of the total price payable. “total price” is defined (see Section 189) as, “the total sum payable by the debtor under a hire-purchase agreement or a conditional sale agreement, including any sum payable on the exercise of an option to purchase, but excluding any sum payable as a penalty or as compensation or damages for a breach of the agreement.*
* Furthermore, in a recent County Court case between Mercedes-Benz Financial Services (UK) Limited v Cahalane (Willesden County Court, 26 February 2018) District Judge Ellington (as she was then) held that excess mileage charges were not recoverable. Her reasons included, amongst other things, that the definition of total price excluded the recoverability of these charges, the statement “Termination: Your Rights” was explicitly clear that liability was limited and, in any event, she was bound by the Court of Appeal decision in Julian Hodge Bank v Hall [1997] EWCA Civ 1852, which established that “total price” excludes compensation and damages for breach of the agreement for the purposes of calculating the total price payable. It might be argued by Vauxhall finance that Section 99(2) allows them to recover the excess mileage charges because those charges accrued before termination. I would say that this is wrong and the same argument was raised in the Mercedes-Benz case which was ultimately rejected. It was held that the excess mileage charges crystallise upon termination of the contract and not before as suggested by Vauxhall finance.


Collection fee:

*Whilst I accept that the collection fee is referred to in the contract, for the same reasons explained above, it is not a recoverable cost. The collection fee is a compensatory cost and/or any failure to comply with that obligation would amount to a breach of contract. In either case, my liability is still limited to one half of the total price and I refer back to the points I raised regarding excess mileage charges above.
Vehicle refurbishment charges Concerning the condition of the vehicle upon its return to Vauxhall finance.
*it was in my opinion returned in a reasonable condition. Vauxhall finance seeks to argue that i* did not satisfy the criteria set out in the BVRLA standards and so it was not in a reasonable condition. I would add by saying that I do not consider the BVRLA criteria to be an appropriate method of determining whether or not the vehicle is in a reasonable condition. This is because those standards do not factor in the age of the vehicle and so the same criteria apply irrespective of the car’s age being nearly new or five years old. It is commonly accepted that a vehicle will naturally degrade over time and the older the vehicle becomes, the more damage it is likely to sustain. On the other hand, I would suggest that the CAP HPI Vehicle Conditions are a more suitable criteria since it makes an allowance for the age of the vehicle. When comparing the CAP Vehicle Conditions matrix against the damage raised by vuaxhall finance the vechicle it self would appear to fall into the clean catogory, Acordingly,* the vehicle would therefore be considered to have been in a reasonable condition at the time of it’s return.

*How I would like my complaint to be resolved:

I am asking the Ombudsman to require*vauxhall finance to remove all the charges and refrain from trying to demand these sums.* I would also invite the Ombudsman to consider making a compensatory award against*Vauxhall finance* under DISP 3.7 of the FCA’s Handbook having poorly handled my complaint. I have spent a great deal of time having to prize information from vauxhall finance* because they have failed to give any substantive response, contrary to CONC 7.5.3 which obliges them to not ‘ignore or disregard a customer’s claim that a debt is disputed without providing clear justification and/or evidence as to why the customer’s claim is not valid.’


* Further evidence enclosed To enable you to fully consider my complaint and to minimise delays I* enclose the following documents which are referred to in this complaint letter:
*• An extract of the consultation paper, A Consultation on Voluntary Termination of Hire Purchase and Conditional Sale Agreements Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 dated 2 September 2004, reference 04/1557. I do not consider the rest of the document helpful as it contains a series of questions but please let me know if you require the full text;
*• A transcript of the County Court decision of Mercedes-Benz Financial Services (UK) Limited v Cahalane (26 February 2018);
*• A copy of the CAP HPI Vehicle Conditions crib sheet; and
• Copies of Sections 99, 100, 173 and 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
*Whilst writing, I would also highlight to you that Section 228(2) of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 requires the Ombudsman to decide complaints ‘by reference to what is, in the opinion of the Ombudsman, fair and reasonable in all the circumstances of the case’. DISP 3.6.4 provides that when considering what is fair and reasonable, the Ombudsman will take into account any relevant law and regulations. This was further confirmed in the Court of Appeal case of R (Heather Moor & Edgcomb) v FOS [2008] EWCA Civ 642 which held that the Ombudsman is ‘free to depart from the relevant law but if he does so he should say so in his decision and explain why’. Accordingly, I would ask that you determine my complaint having regard to the applicable law which in this case is the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and also the decision of the judge in the Mercedes-Benz case. Please could you acknowledge safe receipt of my complaint and, if possible, provide me with an estimated time of when my complaint is likely to be looked at.
*I look forward to hearing from you.*
Yours faithfully,**
*
How does this sound R0b please let me know and let me know what i should change before i fire it over? I have found an email for them which is*

complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk
*

[R0b]

Looks ok