Black Horse VT

[krisdevlin83]

Hi everybody, I am relatively new to the forum and been doing quite a bit of research on voluntary termination. I am very impressed with the amount of useful information on here and gotta take my hat of to Rob and others, sorry cant remember your names, that put a lot of time and effort into helping everybody and always supplying top quality information and guidance.

I am 3 years into a 4 year PCP and have finally reached the 50% mark, which includes balloon payment and i am now looking to VT my contract as struggling somewhat financially. I have already checked value of car as initially i was going to trade car in to pay off finance and get something cheaper. However, like so many others on here i owe more than what my car is worth.*

Using the templates on here i have drafted up a copy of my termination letter and will be sending it first thing Monday morning as recorded delivery. The car is in pretty good condition for its age, however i did not get the car serviced in 2018 (car bought in 2017) but it was serviced last year. Im near next to certain this isnt something that the finance company will miss and i am willing to pay reasonable charges for this as, at the end of the day was my own stupid fault.

I was wondering if anyone has got an email address for black horse as i was wanting to send my termination letter through email also?? I have googled and searched the forum but cant seem to find one, or at least one that i know will be going to the right place.

Apart from that ive not really got any questions or queries at the moment but would be very grateful if anyone has any advice or information they would like to share. Just wanted to start a thread to document my experience through the VT process, get everyones point of view and advice and hopefully at the end of the day a positive result.

Thanks in advance

Kris

[ScrewLoose]

Morning Kris,*

I'm in the middle of a VT with Black Horse the same as yourself, don't even try to get a hold of an email as they'll not give you one and they will try everything possible to take you off the track and fill in their paperwork. Have a look at my posts over the last week on this forum and you'll get a good idea of how the story goes.*

There's also a different address to post it to, VT paperwork goes to Etterick House in Edinburgh if you've not got the address's Ely me know and I'll dig it out.*



Good luck and stick it out!*

[krisdevlin83]

Hi and thank you for your reply.

I have read through your thread and many others on here and feel black horse are one of the worst companies to deal with when it comes to the VT process. I tried my best to get the girl over the phone to give me an email address but she wouldn't and as you stated in your thread she was very very rude and unhelpful.

I wish i had know about the Edinburgh postal address before yesterday as my VT letter was sent on Monday morning to their head office in Wales and was signed for this morning so i know they definitely have it.

At this stage i suppose its just a waiting game until they get back to me to see what to do next. I don't have any insurance issues like yourself so im hoping it will be fairly straight forward.

My only concern is with how long it actually takes as i need a car as have a young family and need to get to my work. Im not sure if i should completely stop using car now VT is in process and go get something cheaper and end up with 2 cars or just keep using the one i have until they pick it up. Are you still using yours?

Will keep a close eye on your thread be interesting to find out your outcome and will keep my thread updated on my progress.

All the best

[ScrewLoose]

I've not got any experience with the other companies but BHF have definitely made sure that I wouldn't use them again. I'm aware that VT is more of a loophole than they would like but it's something we are entitled to use and they definitely shouldn't be as obstructive as they have been.*

I only got the Edinburgh address after I had spoken got he angry lady in collections so I wouldn't worry about it too much, I'm guessing the address you sent it to is the one on your agreement? In which case I don't think they could argue it.*

Prepare for them to pretend your initial letter never existed as they send you their "company policy" forms which they will insist you sign. Cancel your direct debit and stick to your guns!*

How long are you planning to wait before you buy another car? I bought mine before I VT'd this car to make sure I had an overlap. Unfortunately I'm having to wait four weeks for delivery (I should have the new car on Saturday!) but its been three weeks since I VT'd my car and they still haven't collected it.*

Its entirely your choice, I'm not sure where you would stand legally with using the car after you've terminated the agreement but as I say, they've not collected mine yet so make your decision and do as you please. One of their demands is that you drop the car off, as such I'm presuming they are happy with you driving it still.

I plan on keeping my thread up to date as there's a few interesting points raised, I just hope it doesn't work out hugely expensive for me but we'll cross that bridge if we reach it.*

[krisdevlin83]

Yeah the address i got was the one of my finance paperwork so hopefully it ends up in the right hands. Im wondering if worth giving them a phone in the next couple of days to see when someone will be coming to collect the car. Although using the template on here i did say to reply within 14 days.

My wife and I have seen a car we want and wanting to go and put a deposit down as soon as possible but as i said i dont want to have 2 cars sitting in the driveway as the VT'd car will be uninsured if they are gonna take weeks to come get it. At the same time i dont want to be putting miles on it when technically it doesnt belong to me now it is VT'd. Im starting to think best thing to do is just go get another car ASAP and just deal with the fact car may be in drive for a few weeks. This is the main issue at the moment that is stressing me out lol.

So have you been using the VT'd car for the last 3 weeks??

[ostell]

So you tell them that you are transferring the car into their name and they will be responsible for tax and insurance. Might get them to collect it a bit quicker. Or you could SORN it

[krisdevlin83]

Just to give an update on my VT process so far. I hadn't received email or letter back from black horse so decided to phone them. The phone call could not have been any different from the first time i contacted them. The girl on the phone was a pleasure to deal with and couldn't have been more helpful. She told me that my file hadn't been updated but she would do it now and make sure their pack was sent out to me. I told her on the phone i wouldn't be signing anything and she said that is fine but it will explain how to organise collection of vehicle, any payments i may be liable for, etc.*

I should have the paperwork with me next week some time. I believe they use an auction site that is only 10 mins away from my house so i will be delivering the car to them to try and speed up the process.

Will keep you all updated*
*

[krisdevlin83]

Well i knew the first phone call was too good to be true. I received a phone call from black horse today saying that they are not gonna accept my VT letter as it was not signed. GIrl on the phone was very rude when i said that legally i do not need to sign the letter. She then claimed they need a signature so they know that it is me that is requesting the VT. She said the pack that they send out should be with me tomorrow and i need to sign and return it and if i dont they will not accept or process the VT request. Any help of info would be greatly appreciated.

[R0b]

Well i knew the first phone call was too good to be true. I received a phone call from black horse today saying that they are not gonna accept my VT letter as it was not signed. GIrl on the phone was very rude when i said that legally i do not need to sign the letter. She then claimed they need a signature so they know that it is me that is requesting the VT. She said the pack that they send out should be with me tomorrow and i need to sign and return it and if i dont they will not accept or process the VT request. Any help of info would be greatly appreciated.

Absolutely no surprise there. I'm not going to go into any detail because my VT guide explains it all but:

1) There is nothing in the CCA that says that the notice must be signed by you. On the contrary, termination only requires notice to be given in writing, so they can't now invent new conditions as they please.

2) I find it odd that the BH employee says that the signature is necessary to validate that it is you who is actually exercising the termination right, yet presumably they called you from the number they have on their system. Why couldn't she have verified who you were over the telephone, presumably she asked you some questions about your account before discussing the matter? Even if she didn't, there was nothing stopping that employee from validating you and confirming your intention.

3) Voluntary termination is a novelty, so I can't see why they need to be sure it is you exercising that right. Did they provide any evidence as to why they were suspicious of whether the letter actually came from you? If not, another thing to point out.

The fact that she has threatened to refuse your termination notice is, in itself a repudiatory breach on the basis that it deprives you of your right to bring the agreement to an end and limit your liability to one half of the total price - I suggest you do some research into repudiatory breach so you properly understand what it means.

It is entirely up to you as to how you want to take the next course of action; either you can make a formal complaint, or send a reply claiming repudiatory breach and therefore terminating the contract on that basis or alternatively allowing them further time to reconsider.

I've attached an unfinished letter for repudiatory breach as an example of how you may want to approach it. The sooner these finance companies learn they can't pick and choose making people's life more difficult, the better!

Of course you can sign the VT pack if you want but you may want to review the wording because it's usually written in a way to say you accept any damage charges and excess mileage raised by the finance co.

I would be interested in seeing their VT pack if you don't mind uploading it with any personal info redacted.

[krisdevlin83]

Hi Rob, thank you very much for your response and your advice. I think my next course of action will wait until i have received their paperwork (did not come in the post today) and take it from there. I will not be signing anything until i have uploaded them for you to have a look. Hopefully they arrive tomorrow and i will get them uploaded ASAP.

I will not be backing down however and wont be letting them walk all over me. I have read your letter and depending on what their paperwork says i am willing to go ahead with claiming a repudiatory breach. I totally agree with you, the finance companies are making things very difficult and i was shocked and appalled at the way i was spoken to on the phone.*

As i said hopefully i can upload the VT paperwork tomorrow and can take it from there.

Thanks again

[krisdevlin83]

Hi Rob. My documents arrived today and i have uploaded them for you to have a look at. Please let me know what you think my next step should be. I am willing to drop car off at auction site just to get the car off my hands. It is a 74 mile round trip but as i said just want the car signed over to them as quickly as possible. Thanks in advance. EPSON023.pdf

[krisdevlin83]

Sorry to be a pest Rob but the address i sent my original VT letter was to their customer services team in Cardiff. The VT paperwork they have sent is from their collections department in Edinburgh. I am currently drafting up my repudiatory breach letter and wondering where it should be delivered to?? Im guessing it will be the customer service department where the original letter was sent but just want to make sure. Thanks in advance

[R0b]

Pretty standard letter but its the two above statements that would give me cause for concern.

Regarding the first statement, you've actually written to them so the agreement has already terminated. They can't say that you must remain liable for the instalments until you have signed the paperwork. Again, this is what I was talking about where they have added conditions not required by the CCA.

The second statement highlighted in red may be interpreted, depending on how you read it, as two duties rather than one. There is no obligation to reimburse the lender if the car's resale price is adversely affected - that could be a number of factors, particularly if the car is sold at auction it is likely to attract a lower value than if it was returned to a dealership or sold privately. Other factors which could affect resale price could include, time of the year, weather conditions, turnout at the auction etc.

Some lenders try to argue that the resale value is linked to the duty to take reasonable care, but I would disagree and in fact, I would say that the lender has a duty to mitigate their losses and should take steps to obtain the best possible price for the car - that would entail going to a dealership and inquiring as to what it would fetch for, or alternatively putting it out for private sale for a period of time.

If you sign the document as it is, your termination date would be considered effective from this paperwork, not when you originally sent it in. You may have also agreed to additional liability around the resale price, something you are not duty bound at the moment.

Sorry to be a pest Rob but the address i sent my original VT letter was to their customer services team in Cardiff. The VT paperwork they have sent is from their collections department in Edinburgh. I am currently drafting up my repudiatory breach letter and wondering where it should be delivered to?? Im guessing it will be the customer service department where the original letter was sent but just want to make sure.

The letter you received came from the Collections Department in Edinburgh so I think it would be sensible to send your letter to that address and not the customer service one. Nonetheless, your notice of termination should be deemed valid because it was sent to the lender.*

[krisdevlin83]

Thanks once again for your reply. I have drafted up a letter using your template earlier on repudiatory breach. I have decided to give them till Wednesday next week to accept the VT. Will get that letter sent out today as recorded delivery. One last thing before I send it, should I mention collection of car in this letter or leave that till they get back to me? Thanks.*

[R0b]

You can mention the collection of the car, that's fine I think you said you were prepared to deliver to an auction site, so if that's still the case then briefly mention that you'll be in touch with the auction company to arrange delivery. Make sure to take plenty of photos and videos on the day of delivery prior to just handing it over in case there is additional damage between then and auction date.