VT with RCI Finance - Nissan

[mackem79]

R0b or anyone else please?

[R0b]

You're already aware of other threads so I dont need to give you my blessing. The position remains the same and you either sign and declare the mileage or don't.

P

[mackem79]

R0b

Thats noted and understood thanks, just wanted to make sure I was going down the right path as it feels quite a delicate situation at this phase of the process.

Thanks again.

[R0b]

I'm not trying to be rude, it's just that a lot of people on here ask exactly the same question even though they've read recent threads where I've mentioned the same thing.

I'm slowly, but surely updating the VT guide which will cover all of these points so once I've updated that, it should cover everything for people to handle their own disputes.

[mackem79]

No I completely understand, I just think with so much riding on doing things correctly that people often seek confirmation, I have read the other threads and again am grateful.

[mackem79]

Hi, me again.

As probably expected, RCI are being difficult.

They claim that we owe them £300, a direct debit payment which was due after we initially emailed them re the VT process though prior to them receiving our signed letter. Today we have received a letter from them asking for this money with associated threats to our credit rating. They are also stalling on having Manheim collect the vehicle and citing this outstanding amount as a cause.

Our most recent email to them, outlining dates of relevance, is copied below.

I'd be very grateful for advice as how best to proceed, we notified them via email we had no intention of paying more money but they held off cancelling the direct debit until they received the letter which seems a little unfair.

Thanks in advance.

R0b tagged for your attention, thanks.


Thank you for your response dated 1st October.

I disagree with your observations regarding the direct debit payment on 25th September.

I first notified you of my intention to begin the VT procedure and make no further payments in my email dated 11th September. You responded to this email on 14th September in which you asked me to send a letter with a signature upon it. I can therefore assume you were fully aware of my intention to terminate the agreement.

This letter was sent though to the address for your company I found on Google, which you later told me was incorrect.

In fact I further emailed you on 23rd September to chase up the letter and it was this email that was responded to with the correct address, your response to me was sent on 24th September.

I replied to that email the following day, 25th September acknowledging the new address and reminding you I had cancelled the direct debit and that I would send another letter to the new address, which you have now obviously received.

I believe that to exercise my voluntary termination right under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 all I am required to do give notice in writing, which I clearly have done as described above.

I would also point out that I am not obliged to sign anything prior to the vehicle being returned. I will contact the collection agency to arrange for them to take possession of the vehicle at the soonest opportunity.

[R0b]

Well, you've caused yourself problems by re-sending the letter signed, you shouldn't have done that in the first place. I assume from RCI's point of view the initial letter wasn't considered valid but the second was and so monies due. How do you explain in court (if either you or RCI initiated proceedings) why you sent the second letter?

Never rely on the other side to cancel a direct debit, you should always do that yourself or you could end up making more payments and then get into unnecessary disputes.

What you are going to have to do is hold yourself to the fact that the first notice of termination was validly served in accordance with the the CCA, it was not necessary to send a second one but you did so because RCI were being difficult. Nonetheless, termination took effect from the date given in the first letter - had you followed my the guidance in my VT Guide you would have sent it by email and rather than post or at least email and post.

You can put them on notice that any adverse entries on your credit file will be met with legal proceedings for breach of the Data Protection Act 2018/GDPR. That might put them off doing so but I wouldn't suggest you saying it unless you are going to go through with legal proceedings, you'll only embarrass yourself and RCI won't take you seriously.

As for the collection of the car, you have some options:

1. Continue holding on to it whilst this is ongoing and maybe charge them on a daily basis up for a limited time e.g. 1 month for looking after it/keeping on the drive and then proceed on to step 2 or 3 as well as send a letter before action for the recovery of the charges (or not).

2. Use the notice of termination in the VT template letters to tell them you are going to sell the car if not collected in 14 days. Then you can sell it either by auction or autotrader.

3. Threaten them (if you haven't already) that if the car is not collected then you will transfer the V5C into RCI's name, cancel all tax and insurance and then leave it on the public highway and you will no longer take responsibility for it. Whether they choose to collect it or not is their choice since it is their vehicle, not yours.

[mackem79]

Good morning R0b thanks for your reply, please note the following;

Never rely on the other side to cancel a direct debit, you should always do that yourself or you could end up making more payments and then get into unnecessary disputes.

I cancelled my direct debit around the time I sent my first email (below) so they have not taken any money since then.

had you followed my the guidance in my VT Guide you would have sent it by email and rather than post or at least email and post.

I used a template letter from the guidance which was sent via email AND post (albeit initially to an incorrect address). RCI acknowledged the email the day after we sent it though it would appear that they did not consider it sufficient for the purposes of VT. I really don't want to pay them £300 more but if this were to get the VT process back on track then is this something I should consider?

My main aim to is get the vehicle to Manheim so we can move on to the next stage, which I also predict will be awkward but at least I'll be a step closer to resolving the whole issue.

Thanks again.

[R0b]

Sorry it wasnt clear whether they have taken payment or not and it wasnt clear whether you sent the second letter but either way that's by the by.

Your options are as I said above, or you can simply pay up. If you are looking for me to tell you what to do I'm not going to do thay because it's your agreement and your choice.

It sounds like you are more interested in getting the car returned so the simple solution is to pay £300 and get it over and done with.

[mackem79]

Hi R0b thanks again for the response.

I must add that RCI have actually sent us two lots of two emails now, as they have clearly misread, or had a rethink over monies owed and the collection of the vehicle.

Firstly, they acknowledged the cancellation of the direct debit in an email without issue, only to follow this up with a second email correcting their first and saying that we owed them £300.

Secondly, when we chased them up over the collection of the car, they initially said they would arrange this before AGAIN emailing us a second time to tell us that the £300 would be needed first.

What I'm concerned about, regarding the £300 in particular, aside from the money, is that this could be seen as an acceptance of wrongdoing on our part and could adversly affect what happens going forward. I do not want to weaken my position if this is the case.

Thanks again.

[R0b]

I'm not following how it could weaken your position. The issue is whether or not you owe the £300 and if its paid, its paid. How does that weaken your position?

if you want to be certain you can either say that the payment made is not an admission of liability or you could go further and say that due to the undue pressure from RCI and refusal to collect the car unless it is paid, you are going to pay the £300 but you reserve the right to commence legal proceedings at a later stage to recover the sum of money on the basis of unjust enrichment.

I think we are going round in circlesc in trying to answer every anticipation. I think you just need to decide whether you agree to pay the £300 and that's that or dont and see what RCI are going to do.

[mackem79]

Hi R0b

Thats noted thanks.

[mackem79]

R0b

Very briefly please, can the following extract from this forum's advice be applied to notification to cancel Direct Debit as well as VT please?

Thanks

The Interpretation Act 1978 (IA 1978) is an Act of Parliament that was introduced to provide a general definition of words used in legislation where no definition exists in that specific Act. Schedule 1 of the IA 1978 states that "writing" includes:

"typing, printing, lithography, photography and other modes of representing or reproducing words in a visible form, and expressions referring to writing are construed accordingly."

[mackem79]

I am hoping the following reply would be appropriate but will take advice naturally.... (thanks)


Thank you for your email though I continue to dispute the payment you state was due 21/9.




I understand the relevant law surrounding cancellation of Direct Debit in writing is as follows;

The Interpretation Act 1978 (IA 1978) is an Act of Parliament that was introduced to provide a general definition of words used in legislation where no definition exists in that specific Act. Schedule 1 of the IA 1978 states that "writing" includes:

"typing, printing, lithography, photography and other modes of representing or reproducing words in a visible form, and expressions referring to writing are construed accordingly."

I therefore believe that such a notice was given 'in writing' on numerous occasions prior to 21/9, the earliest being 11/9 some ten days prior to 21/9, this was supported by further emails and a letter as stated.




I therefore expect you to pass my details on to the vehicle collection agency so that this matter can be progressed swiftly, as has been our aim since we began these proceedings.




I would like this resolved within 7 days and do not appreciate your letters and what I perceive to be veiled 'threats' of adverse recordings on my credit file. This is not a missed payment, I have been a customer of Nissan Finance (or equivalent) for over 5 years and have never defaulted on a payment, this is a disputed payment due to reasons outlined above.

[mackem79]

Morning R0b I know you usually take a break from here at the weekend so waited until today to see if you wouldn't mind looking over the above please?

Thanks