VT problems

[Yadman]

Sent letter asking for VT last week to finance company.

I've paid 22 of 30 payments on HP so have paid over the 50% amount.

Problem is the car is currently not running due to serious corrosion of the radiator.

The car was fully serviced in September last year, one year after I bought it, and all breakdowns have been dealt with immediately by the RAC and all repairs carried out in the garage at the dealer where I bought the car.

I have an email from the garage confirming that the issues are due to the age of the car and wear and tear as it's basically rust.

The finance company are telling me that they cannot allow VT as the car is not economically viable.

I've contacted them back, quoting the CCA that my obligation for VT is to have paid 50% and to have taken reasonable care of the car.

They haven't disputed me saying about taking reasonable care of the car but are still not allowing VT, despite me saying that, if they can show that I haven't taken reasonable care, they would be within their rights to bill me for the difference in value if the car was sold but they are still refusing to allow the VT to happen.

[R0b]

Have you got their refusal in writing?

Who is the finance company?

[Yadman]

Yes, I have a few emails from them saying they can't allow VT. It's First Response Finance.

[R0b]

Can you post up the chain of correspondence (or the key emails) and I'l ltake a look.

Sounds like First Response are in the wrong here.

[Yadman]

To: Mr ******
Agreement Number: ********

First Response Finance Limited

Dear Mr
Than you for your recent email requesting to terminate your Hire Purchase agreement, I have tried to call you today
to discuss this with no avail.
Unfortunately we are unable to process terminations without speaking to you over the telephone.
Please call our office before 5.30pm on 01942 686686 and we will be happy to help.
On Behalf of
First Response Finance Limited

I called them, got put on hold then disconnected.

Hi there


I called yesterday and spoke to someone but I was put on hold then the call was disconnected.

Can you tell me what specifically you need to discuss over the phone as, under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act, the only thing I have to do is contact you in writing for voluntary termination.

To:
From:
First Response Finance Limited
Telephone: 01942 686686
Dear Mr
Thank you for your email dated 4th July 2019 regarding Voluntary Termination.
You have the right to Voluntary Terminate your agreement, once you have reached the half-way point of the
agreement and paid any arrears due.
Under the rights of a voluntary termination, the vehicle does need to come back to us in a ‘reasonable condition'.
Liabilities may be added to the agreement if this is not the case once the vehicle is collected.
We would instruct an auction company to collect the vehicle directly from you and it will then be sold at auction. They
will contact you by telephone to arrange the collection. We recommend the vehicle is taxed, has a valid MOT and is
insured until it is collected.
Once the Voluntary Termination has been completed, your credit file will be updated to reflect that this is how your
agreement was closed. If you need clarification regarding this, please call us to discuss.
Having checked your agreement, I can confirm that there are no liabilities due as you have reached the half way
point, providing the vehicle is returned in a reasonable condition.
If you wish to go ahead then please call us on 01942 686686 or reply this email. If we do not hear from you within the
next 7 days, we will assume you no longer want to Voluntary Terminate and we will call you to re-instate your direct
debit to avoid any impact on your credit file.
On Behalf of
First Response Finance Limited

Hi there


That all sounds fine. I am happy for this to go ahead.

The car is currently at Belmont autos garage where it was purchased from and will be available to be picked up from there Monday to Friday between 9am and 5pm.

My contact number is

Belmont autos contact number is 01417789450. The company picking up the vehicle may be better off speaking with them to arrange pick up.

To: Mr
From:
First Response Finance Limited
Telephone: 01942 686686
Dear Mr
Thank you for your email, we need to understand the condition of the vehicle, as it needs to be returned in good
working order, if we collect the car and there are issues with the vehicle, which, make impact what we receive at the
auction sale, the shortfall we loose out on will become your Voluntary Termination liability and you will be expected to
pay this.
I have tried to call you today as explaining this is easier over the phone, please call us by 6.30pm today so we can
make sure we you understand this option.
On Behalf of
First Response Finance Limited

To: Mr
From: Callum Prescott
First Response Finance Limited
Telephone: 01942 686686
Dear Mr
Clause 4.1 of your legal agreement states “4.1 You must keep the Vehicle in good working order and condition at
your expense.”
If the vehicle does not start then it isn’t in good working order. This means that you would not be deemed to have
taken reasonable care of the good as the vehicle doesn’t work therefore the voluntary termination will not be
something which is available until the vehicle is in working order.
If you would like to discuss this further, please contact us on 01942 686686.
On Behalf of
First Response Finance Limited

I emailed them back stating that their clause stated there also adds (except for damage due to fair wear and tear). I added that I have an email from the garage that states that the damage to the car is due to corrosion.

To: Mr
From: Lorraine Cartledge
First Response Finance Limited
Telephone: 01942 686686
Dear Mr
Thank you for your email. We have spoken to the dealership and G Motor tec today who have advised us of the
vehicle issues. As the car is uneconomical to collect we would like to discuss further options with you.
We look forward to hearing from you so we can try and help you.
On Behalf of
First Response Finance Limited

This was the last response I had on Friday. I emailed them back stating that I was fully aware that , if it could be shown that I had not taken reasonable care of the car that I would be liable to be billed for any repair costs but I have yet to hear back from them. I also added (possibly just to make them feel guilty) that my father is currently battling cancer and my mother doesn't drive so I currently don't have a car and can't get one until this is sorted out and that I also have a disability which causes me problems using public transport. I maybe shouldn't have added that stuff but I was getting a bit irate.

These emails were over the course of a week from last Monday when I first sent them the letter template from this forum about voluntary termination.

Thank you

[R0b]

I'll have a look and get back to you but in the meantime you have posted personal info. This is a public forum so you would be wise to remove it including g your agreement number

[Yadman]

Thanks

Will do

[Yadman]

Have had a further response from them asking me to call them so they can have a better discussion regarding my situation.

[pt2537]

There is no requirement to have paid 50%, you can VT at any time, you will be liable for 50% of the total price, that is all. They are in a spot of bother i think with their position

[Yadman]

Further response today from the finance company

To: Mr
From: Connor Jones
First Response Finance Limited
Telephone: 01942 686686
Dear Mr
Thanks for your recent email.
We can only process the voluntary termination if the vehicle is in a roadworthy condition, as we believe this isn't the
case we cant process this as we normally would do.
All over our calls are recorded so if you want to call, once we have spoken we can send over a copy of the call
recording for your record.
We look forward to hearing back from you.
On Behalf of
First Response Finance Limited

I didn't think this was the case from what I've seen in the CCA, is that right?

[pt2537]

Further response today from the finance company



I didn't think this was the case from what I've seen in the CCA, is that right?

Its utter toss,

[Yadman]

Concisely put, thanks

[Yadman]

I also have the next payment due out this Friday. Do I still need to make that payment if thdy haven't agreed to VT?

[R0b]

As PT has mentioned, S.99 says that you can terminate the agreement at any time by giving notice - it is not a conditional right. Nothing in s.99(1) says that for the termination to be valid you need to have paid 50% or more nor does it say that at the time of termination the car must be in a reasonable condition. First Response are clearly getting these things mixed up, but its not uncommon because these guys aren't legally trained and are probably running off some internal policy.

Nonetheless, from the spate of emails you've uploaded, it seems to me that there is an absolute refusal to accept your VT on the basis of not reaching the 50% or that the car is currently not in a reasonable condition. In my view, it is perfectly legal to terminate the agreement and then pay any reasonable costs of the car to bring it up to a reasonable roadworthy condition or, if in your case, the car is not roadworthy and might be too costly to repair, you could argue that they should only be entitled to the market value as anything more would constitute betterment. The same principle applies if you have not yet paid 50% as you can terminate immediately and then make up the shortfall.

There is no explanation with reference to the CCA as to what they are relying on which says they can refuse termination if the car is not roadworthy. Indeed they've pointed to a clause that says you need to keep the car in reasonable condition but there's nothing that says you can't terminate; it simply says you are liable to keep the car in a reasonable condition.

Clearly Connor Jones, Callum Prescott and Lorraine Cartledge don't really have any clue about the CCA and the right to VT and on that basis you could at this very point in time, respond to them and claim that their refusal to constitutes a repudiation of the agreement, and that you are electing to accept the repudiation and terminate the agreement with immediate effect. Therefore, you are discharged from any further performance of the contract. Of course you would need to make it clear to them that the breach is the refusal to accept the VT when they have no grounds for doing so, depriving you of the benefit to terminate and limit your liability accordingly. Note that you need to accept the breach quickly and communicate that to them. You can't linger around otherwise you will be deemed to have affirmed the breach and the contract continues to run, your only remedy being damages (if any).

Do be aware, it may be that First Response try to pursue you with this and start adding threats of default notices and late payments etc to your credit file. As soon as they do that, they would be in further breach of data protection laws which gives you a further right to claim damages if you pursued the matter to court.

So there is a risk here that there could be some adverse effects of claiming repudiatory breach but if it went to court, I don't think First Response would have much of a leg to stand on because there's nothing they can rely on in the CCA that allows them to refuse a VT. The question is whether you are prepared to go as far as that, or the only other option seems to be to get the car repaired before they will come collect it and accept your termination, in which case you continue making the monthly instalments.

In summary, as PT has said, they are in a spot of bother but the choice is yours. If you do go the repudiatory breach option, then might be best to post up a draft first before sending it off so one of us can just make sure you are along the right lines.

[Yadman]

I've sent them another email stating again my right to VT and thst the CCA says nothing about the car being roadworthy.

I think the breach option seems to be the best bet as far as I can tell. I take it I pretty much quote what you've said there?

And also, thank you so much