Started my VT

[tobster911]

Hello,

So, I've started my VT Process with this email:

"12^th December 2018

To Whom it May Concern,

I am writing to inform you that I am exercising my right to terminate the above hire purchase agreement with immediate effect in accordance with Section 99 of the CCA 1974. You will be aware that I have to date paid 30 installments plus my deposit, totaling in excess of £7,400 which exceeds more than half the total price payable under the agreement.

Accordingly, I calculate that there are no further installments to be paid, apart from the £429.80 for the outstanding VAPs that have been previously discussed.

I have also inspected the vehicle, along with an independent SMART repairer, and we are of the opinion that it is in a reasonable condition given its age whilst accounting for fair wear and tear.

Photographic evidence has been taken in the event of any future dispute as to the state of the vehicle.

Finally, I would remind you that as a consequence of terminating the agreement under Section 99 of the CCA 1974 and having met the relevant criteria under S.100(1) of the CCA 1974, my liability is limited to one half of the total price payable. Any additional costs, expenses, compensation or otherwise relating to a breach of the agreement are irrecoverable. This includes collection charges and excess mileage charges, among others.

The vehicle will be available to collect on the agreed day, and arrangements should be made at your own cost.

I would appreciate if you could contact me via email within the next 14 days to discuss the next steps.

Many thanks

Yours faithfully,

Toby Walker"

I received this response

"Dear Mr Walker

Thank you for your email

I can confirm that we will start your VT (Voluntary Termination) on 13/12/18, Once this process has started it can't be reversed you will receive an email confirmation from us tomorrow.

Excess Mileage -

Please note the Common Law of Misrepresentation allows the business to recover costs associated with unexpected depreciation in the event that the customer has exceeded the mileage allowance at any point in the contract and terminates early. As such we are within our rights to recover the loss associated with this based on the fact that they potentially misrepresented their intended use of the vehicle. This confirms that we are eligible to charge this for Voluntary Termination (VT) customers.

I understand you have been informed of any potential liabilities by the VT letter and it does state under Your First Steps point 5. “Once we’ve accepted your request your vehicle must be returned. You can arrange with us to deliver the vehicle or to have it collected at a cost of £138.29. Please do not drop the vehicle at the dealership.

Additionally it does say once we receive the report we will advise you of any charges for damages or excess mileage, we’ll tell you how much and how you can pay otherwise your liability under the agreement will end.

Kind Regards"

This is the response I've penned but not yet sent

"Dear Joe,

Thank you for confirmation of the Voluntary Termination as of tomorrow. I will cancel the direct debit effective 14/12/18.

In that letter, you mentioned that the hire purchase agreement refers to excess mileage being charged on a pro-rated basis in the event that the agreement ends early. Whilst I do not dispute this, you will know that the agreement is subject to and regulated by, the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA 1974”).

Therefore, the hierarchy of laws dictate that Acts of Parliament (in this case the CCA 1974) takes precedence over any common law contract. This is further clarified in Section 173 of the CCA 1974 confirming that contracting out of the Act is strictly forbidden and any attempts to do so will render the relevant contractual provision void and unenforceable.

This also applies to things like collection charges. My car is available to collect any time you like, but must be organised with me prior to the collection driver being sent.

Kind Regards

Toby Walker"


Is this an OK email to send, given that as yet, they haven't actually tried to claim excess charges from me as they haven't inspected the car yet. Should I add anything else?

[R0b]

Sounds like the lender is FCA, that statement about common law misrepresentation is a typical template response they have been sending out. There is some worded response lying around on here but I could probably add to it later today if you wait.

Also, strictly speaking if you gave notice to terminate the agreement today, they can process the termination tomorrow but effective date will be today. Trivial point but worth stating for clarity.

[tobster911]

Sounds like the lender is FCA, that statement about common law misrepresentation is a typical template response they have been sending out. There is some worded response lying around on here but I could probably add to it later today if you wait.

Also, strictly speaking if you gave notice to terminate the agreement today, they can process the termination tomorrow but effective date will be today. Trivial point but worth stating for clarity.

Thank you R0B. I started it yesterday, but in a previous conversation we'd discussed it would be activated within 24 hours of them receiving the notice (which I sent late last night), so I'll let them off on this as my next payment isn't due for another month. Thank you though I will add though that it is from today that I will cancel the DD.

I'll see if I can find the response, but my browsing abilities on this site are questionable Thank you

EDIT: And Yes, it is indeed FCA haha

[tobster911]

Their Response:


Good Afternoon Mr Walker,

You have signed for a finance agreement and its relating terms and conditions, both of which are regulated by the the Consumer Credit Act. You have signed for an allowed mileage and for it to be calculated pro rata when terminating your agreement early, you have also signed for the vehicle to be returned without damage or for there to be charges if there is. For this reason you will be charged for any excess mileage and damage beyond fair wear and tear.

I understand you have been informed of any potential liabilities by the VT letter and it does state under Your First Steps point 5. “Once we’ve accepted your request your vehicle must be returned. You can arrange with us to deliver the vehicle or to have it collected at a cost of £138.29. Please do not drop the vehicle at the dealership. The vehicle can be delivered to Manheim directly to avoid the collection fee charge. Their site are Bristol, Bruntinthorpe, Colchester, Leeds, Manchester, Shotts and Washington.

[R0b]

Doesn't matter what FCA says, it's the legislation that counts. Section 100(1) clearly limits your liability on termination of the agreement to one half of the total price. The definition of total price under the CCA excludes any sums in relation to compensation, breach of contract or penalty charges. Section 173 says that you can't contract out of the CCA and any term that is inconsistent with the rights and liabilities of the debtor, shall be deemed void and unenforceable.

Up to you whether you want to return the vehicle at your own cost. There is also a template letter about giving notice to collect the vehicle or either sell it or park it on a public highway and absolve yourself of liability thereafter if they refuse to come and get it. It's in the templates list and I think number 3 at the top.

I can't find the FCA response but to be honest, the excess mileage stuff doesn't really need to be commented on until they bill you for it.

Like you said in that letter though, the CCA prevails over any common law contract so whatever is said in the contract terms is irrelevant when you exercise your VT right. The clause would however, be applicable if you saw the agreement through to the end and then wanted to return it.

[tobster911]

Thank you. I'll follow up with something to this effect, and see what they say. In terms of delivery, I'll tell them I'm happy to deliver if they want to cover the costs involved, else on the 27th December, the DVLA will be notified and the car parked on the road, untaxed and uninsured. I'll let you know their response.

This is very good of you Rob, committing your own time to help us out, so, massive appreciation and thanks

[tobster911]

My response:
Good afternoon Megan,

Indeed, when I signed the contract, I signed to say the excess mileage charges would be enforceable at the end of the contract (as detailed in my previous email). However, as I am exercising my right to voluntary termination, this limits my total liability to half of the total amount payable as clearly specified in S.100(1) of the CCA. The definition of total price under the CCA excludes any sums in relation to compensation, breach of contract or penalty charges (which includes excess mileage and collection fees, among others), and S.173 states that you are unable to contract out of the CCA, and any term that is inconsistent with the rights of the debtor shall be deemed void and unenforceable.

This is, as you know, also applicable to collection of the vehicle. As I am terminating the contract, and not seeing it through to the end, no collection charges can be enforced. To this end, once my new vehicle arrives, I will store EN16 GYK in a garage until the 27th December. If it is not collected in this time, I will inform the DVLA that I am no longer the registered keeper, and will park the vehicle on a public road, SORNd and uninsured. A later date may be arranged as I am willing to be flexible as I appreciate that there are limitations around the festive period.

In terms of damage, the car has been well looked after and serviced in line with the requirements. Myself and an independent person have looked over the car and found no damage that wouldn't constitute fair wear and tear on the vehicle, so you needn't be concerned about this.

Many thanks

Kind Regards

Toby Walker

[tobster911]

Their response:
Good Afternoon Mr Walker,

Thank you for your email, I am raising this with our Customer relations department who will in touch to advise. Please may you confirm the current mileage of the vehicle in order for the customer relations team to be able to look into this for you.

I will continue with the termination of your agreement in the meantime and it will be terminated as of tomorrow.

The collection of the vehicle tends to be within two weeks, however please note with the christmas period coming up we do need to the vehicle booked in as soon as possible as Manheim can not collect on the 27th or 28th December or weekends, i also can not comment on their availability so can not confirm which date this will be as of yet. They will call you within in the next 3 working days to arrange the date.

Please note our complaints proceedure does have a turn around time of 8 weeks.

[tobster911]

My response - I think I won the delivery fee argument:

Good afternoon Megan,

Thank you. That's fine. I'm away from the car at the moment, but it is somewhere in the region of 26,800.

Thank you for the termination of the contract. How do I pay the remaining £429 to you?

Regarding collection, I appreciate that we're at that time of year where things do slow down, so once they call me, I'll be in touch to let you know when they will collect it, just so we're all on the same wave length. I guess they will have a collection report in terms of reporting damage etc, as obviously I will not be liable in the (admittedly very unlikely) event that the car sustains damage en-route to the auction center?

An 8 week turnaround? That's no problem in and of itself, as long as I have no responsibility for the car from the day it is collected.

Thank you

Kind Regards

Toby Walker

[tobster911]

Their response:

Good Afternoon Mr Walker,

You will be liable for the damage to the vehicle up until the moment vehicle is handed over to Manheim.

We will look to get these vehcle collected ASAP.


I haven't bothered to respond to this. Surely I cannot be held liable if they damage the car? I will be taking photos, and getting the collection driver to sign a document that states mileage, condition, and that all documentation, tools, spare wheel etc is present.

[R0b]

No point in engaging in back and forth correspondence, you aren't going to get very far with them at the moment.

[tobster911]

Exactly, it was just to get the collection sorted for now, and will then deal with the aftermath when it comes around

[tobster911]

Response regarding collection:
Dear Mr Walker,

I can confirm that your Voluntary Termination has been processed as such please cancel your direct debit today.

Our agents at Manheim Auctions have been instructed to inspect and collect the vehicle and their details are below:

bookings@manheim.co.uk

03331361025

If you do not hear from Manheim within 3 days, please contact them to arrange a booking.

To ensure a successful collection, the vehicle must be roadworthy and you must adhere to your booking with Manheim. You also need to have the original V5 document, the tyre tread depth must be the legal minimum of 1.6mm and the vehicle must not have any warning lights illuminated, overdue MOT, etc. Failure to meet these requirements would result in an aborted collection which is £170.37 and you would be liable. Please check the vehicle carefully before the collection takes place to avoid a potential abort charge.

I note that you have £429.88 remaining as the contractual amount due towards your GAP Insurance and Service Plan. You can make this payment by calling us on the number below or by bank transfer using the attached details.

Provided this balance is settled in full within 28 days, a default will not be recorded on your credit file and only the “V” marker will show which is not adverse. You can make an arrangement to pay by calling our Collections team on 0344 561 4738 however please note that this would be reflected on your credit profile and be visible to other lenders.

Important: Please remove section 9 (yellow) of the V5 and add ‘GOING TO TRADE’. You must ensure that you send section 9 (the yellow slip) to the DVLA the day the vehicle is collected/handed to Manheim. If you can deliver the vehicle to the auction house, the collection fee of £138.29 will not apply.

The VAT number and Motor Trader signature are not required as such please leave them blank. Please keep a copy of the V5 for your records as you may need the document reference number at a later date.

Your nearest Drop off point address is as below:

Manheim Manchester,

Richmond Rd,

Stretford,

Manchester

M17 1RE

If you do not receive acknowledgement from the DVLA within 4 weeks that you’re no longer the registered keeper, you need to contact them to ensure their records are updated. If you are still recorded as being the registered keeper, you may receive penalties as they will assume you are driving the vehicle without tax or insurance.

The inspection will be carried out in your presence and any areas of damage (if any) will be brought to your attention on the day. You will be given a report to sign that shows you were present however please note that by signing the report, you still maintain your right to dispute any charges with us at a later date. The only charge that the Manheim agent cannot confirm is excess mileage as such the agent will take a photograph of the odometer. Please ensure that you have all items and accessories that came with the vehicle to avoid being charged, for example; the spare key, locking wheel nut, service book, etc. A third party can deal with the inspection/collection on your behalf provided they are 18 years old or over as such if this applies to you, please forward this email to them for their reference.

After the vehicle has been returned we will write to you in due course to confirm and finalise charges (if any).

If we can assist further, please contact us using the details below.

[tobster911]

My response:
Good morning Joe,

Thank you for this confirmation, I look forward to hearing from Manheim. I will call today to make the final payment of £429.88.

Regarding collection fees applicable, as per my last email string (Termination of hire purchase agreement pursuant to section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA 1974”) Agreement #21842574 - EN16 GYK), I am not liable under the CCA to pay this collection charge, and as such, this is down down to you to organise at your own cost. This is because, as you know, I have paid in excess of 50% of the total amount payable, which doesn't include any penalty charges or charges for things such as delivery and excess mileage.

Many thanks

Kind Regards

Toby Walker

[tobster911]

R0b , I've just been reading your guide to VT, and you say not to sign ANY paperwork from the lender or their collection agents. So, when they come to collect my car and have a look around it, tick their boxes saying it's in good condition etc, should I not even sign this?

Thank you

T