VT Collection charge added as change of Terms and Conditions??

[Kingmonkey77]

Hi R0b

Firstly apologies for starting a new thread when I know there are so many about VT already. I have searched through and can't find an answer to the query I have.

I am currently going through a VT for a Fiat 500 through FCA Automotive.

In their first email they said "The collection fee increase can in as of 1^st July 2018, as part of the update to your terms and conditions which also included the GDPR privacy update. However you can look to avoid the charge by delivering the vehicle yourself to Manheim."

I replied saying "You mention a collection fee increase, but again, I can't find anything in the agreement about a collection fee for the VT of the vehicle. As I asked in my last email, if you could point out to me in my agreement where it says I'll be liable for the collection fee I'd really appreciate it. As far as I was aware I am under no obligation to pay any fees for the collection of the vehicle. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half of the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the act. As you say in the next line of your email, the vehicle is yours so I shouldn't be liable for the collection of your asset"

To which they responded "
As noted in my previous email, the collection fee was increased as of 1^st July 2018 so will not be in your original agreement. We sent out a letter and email to all agreement holders on the 25^th May to advise of the GDPR privacy update and the update to your Terms and Conditions, being the collection fee. We are legally able to make changes to your terms and conditions as long as 30 notice is given, which was.
The collection fee can be avoided if you deliver the vehicle however.
We do hold the interest in the vehicle so we would not pay any amount to yourself, however if you choose to return the vehicle instead of paying in full for it, we will charge you for the collection."

Does that sound correct, can they change the terms and conditions to insert a collection fee? I don't recall having anything in the post or by email about this

Thanks in advance for your help

[Kingmonkey77]

I have noticed my contract that says "Goods collection fee on voluntary termination of the HP agreement by you - £70. See clause 11.1 for further details"

Does this mean there is no way out for me collection charge wise and I'm stuck with having to pay it?

[R0b]

I couldn't tell you the answer about the increase in collection fee unless I saw the contract.

Either way, you case is no different to anyone else's, they're still claiming to be owed collection fees when they cannot under the 50% rule. When you start deviating from the norm, it tends to make life more difficult for you. There is a clear path set out on this forum and my guide explains what can and can't be charged.

If you want to pay thats up to you, but my view is that it isn't recoverable because of the CCA provisions. When you terminate the agreement you become what is known as an involuntary bailee and the duty is on FCA to come and collect their own vehicle. They can't rely on the contractual term because the CCA does not allow for recovery of compensation or damages for breach of the terms (which amount to a breach if you refused to pay collection fee but nevertheless irrecoverable).

Take a look at the link below and the template letter for response to finance company to excess mileage charges. Apart from the reference to Section 99(2) the rest of those bullet points are directly applicable to collection fees - you would need to adapt it so it refers to collection fees rather than excess mileage charges.

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...tter-templates


If you need feedback, upload a draft for comment before sending it off.

[Kingmonkey77]

R0b Thank you so much for that reply. That letter looks great and is what I'll go with. Is it better to dispute the charge before the VT has been completed or wait until they bill me for it after? I only requested the VT today and haven't confirmed it with them yet. Once again, thanks so much for your help with this

[R0b]

You don't "request" VT, you have to give notice in writing to them that you are going to VT. If you don't you are not protected by the limited liability rule and the collection fee applies.

Suggest you read the link below and get yourself up to speed.

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...on-your-rights

[Kingmonkey77]

Yes, sorry, I just used the wrong words. I contacted them about it and discussed it and they told me about the increase in fee. I meant is it best to dispute that now they’ve told me, or when they bill me for it. Sorry, this is all new to me

[R0b]

Well you can't dispute it until you've exercised your right to VT. The limited liability only kicks in once that VT has occurred so until it does, their right to increase the fee is likely to be valid and enforceable.

[Kingmonkey77]

Ok cool, I’ll inform them tomorrow then. Thanks for your help, it’s really really appreciated

[Kingmonkey77]

Hi Guys

Sorry for dragging up an old thread but my dispute is still ongoing and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on what I should do next.

I had a letter from the finance company telling me after the inspection the total due was £566.38. It was broken down below

Front Alloy Wheel L Scuffed £60
Quarter Panel L Dent £48
Rear Wheel Alloy Distorted £190.38
B Post R Dent £138
Front Alloy Wheel R Scuffed £60.00
Collection Fee £70

When inspecting the car the guy from the inspection company advised that under no circumstances should I accept the charges as they are far to strict for the condition of the car and disproportionate for the actual damage on the car.

The finance company have agreed as a "goodwill gesture" to reduce the amount owed for FWAT due to what I was told by the agent that came to inspect the vehicle but they have refused to even acknowledge any of the points I have made in my emails and now they are saying they will withdraw their gesture of goodwill unless I agree to what they are saying

Again, sorry for the long post but I was really hoping someone can give me some advice
R0b many thanks in advance!!




Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Voluntary Termination

Agreement Number: XXXXXXX

Vehicle Registration: XXXXXXX

I am writing further to your letter dated 17 December 2018.

I am under no obligation to pay any fees for the collection of the vehicle. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act. Under Section 99 of the CCA 1974 and having met the relevant criteria, under S.100(1) of the CCA 1974, my liability is limited to one half of the total price payable. Any additional costs, expenses, compensation or otherwise relating to a breach of the agreement are irrecoverable.

Please also note that liability in relation to the alleged outstanding balance for excessive damage to the vehicle is denied.

The vehicle was maintained in a reasonable condition throughout the period of the agreement and therefore such damage charges you are claiming would amount to fair wear and tear; the vehicle does not need to be returned to you in any better condition other than a reasonable one. Photographic evidence was taken prior to the vehicle being transferred to you which clearly shows that the vehicle was in a reasonable condition. The onus is on you to prove that the alleged damage caused was more than reasonable fair wear and tear.

After the car was inspected, the man from Manheim who completed the inspection advised that the amount I would be charged for the alleged damaged on the car was disproportionate and not to agree to what he had entered into his machine. He advised that I would be charged £190 to replace a distorted alloy, but if the alloy was scuffed and needed replacing the cost would be over £100 less. He said he didn't understand why the cost to replace an alloy was so different depending on why it needed to be replaced.


He also suggested that I advised you to look at the distance photos that he had taken of the car in which you can see the full body of the car. These show that the car is in more than reasonable condition for the cars age and usage.

I am under no obligation to pay any fees for the collection of the vehicle. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act. Under Section 99 of the CCA 1974 and having met the relevant criteria, under S.100(1) of the CCA 1974, my liability is limited to one half of the total price payable. Any additional costs, expenses, compensation or otherwise relating to a breach of the agreement are irrecoverable.

In any event, such sums you are alleging to be owed may only be recovered by a court order only and should you wish to pursue this matter in court, your application will be strongly defended.

Please confirm by return that you agree to the payment above / this matter is now closed.

Yours faithfully,

Steven Worth









Dear Steven

Thank you for your email.

Our apologies for the delay.

Hopefully so there isn't any confusion, the inspection conducted by our agents (Manheim) was to determine the degree to how the vehicle was cared for. A tolerance for damage is allowed, but it needs to be considered Fair wear and tear (FWAT). Although we owed the vehicle and are entitled to use our own guidelines we don't, we use the British standard (BVRLA) to determine FWAT.

Our agents role is to inspect the vehicle, provide the inspection report & point out the damage if requested.

Prior to starting the VT, you were sent a VT Request letter that stated if the vehicle is returned then the inspector would use the BVRLA guidelines to determine damages.

The BVRLA set the inspection guidelines, the auction houses set the prices, it's not in their interest to inflate prices as they want the best prices at sale.

Issues should be rectified prior to returning the vehicle.

We have reviewed the inspection report (attached), the Distorted Alloy has been reduced to £60.00.

Cuts, Holes or Deformation of items are not permitted by the BVRLA.

Dents on body panels exceeding 10mm or paintwork exposed are not permitted by the BVRLA.

Scuffs on wheel trims exceeding 50mm (whole circumference) or any damage to spokes are not permitted by the BVRLA.


The BVRLA guidelines state costs maybe the actual repair costs or the loss of value cost.

As a goodwill gesture to settle the dispute we have removed £130.38 from your charges.

Your O/S balance is £436.00.


What Next



You may contact our collection function (0333-207-5582) to pay by debit card, request a repayment plan or alternately make

a bank transfer using the details below:



Payee: FCA Automotive Services UK Ltd

Account number: 33072428

Sort code: 20-00-00

Reference: 21658565

If you feel that we won’t be able to reach a satisfactory resolution then you may contact the conciliation service of the BVRLA by visiting
their website below:

http://www.bvrla.co.uk/

“We are members of the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association (BVRLA). All vehicles returned to FCA Automotive are inspected in line with the British Vehicle Renting and Leasing Association fair wear and tear guidelines. This ensures that all customers are treated fairly with regard to any potential charges upon the vehicle return. Unresolved complaints may be referred to them by visiting their website www.bvrla.co.uk”



The BVRLA is approved by Government as a Consumer ADR body under the Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015.


Kind regards,

Alvin – Fleet Operations







Good afternoon

Firstly, many thanks for the gesture of goodwill in reducing the distorted alloy, however you have failed to respond to the majority of points in my previous email and added to that I have had to chase you for a reply.

I further dispute the charges as after the car was inspected, the man from Manheim who completed the inspection advised that the amount I would be charged for the alleged damage on the car was disproportionate for the good condition of the car and not to agree to it.

I also refer again to the part in my last email that states I am under no obligation to pay any fees for the collection of the vehicle. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act. Under Section 99 of the CCA 1974 and having met the relevant criteria, under S.100(1) of the CCA 1974, my liability is limited to one half of the total price payable. Any additional costs, expenses, compensation or otherwise relating to a breach of the agreement are irrecoverable.

However, again, notwithstanding the above, I'm prepared to pay a reasonable sum of £248 relating to the alleged damage inclosed in your letter. This amount is half the requested amount minus the collection fee which I believe is more than reasonable considering the condition and milage on the car. I again propose that I make 8 monthly payments of £31.

Please confirm in writing that you agree to the above and how to set up the payments and that the matter can now be considered as closed.

Many thanks

Steve







Dear Steven

Thank you for your email.

Our apologies for the delay.

As a goodwill gesture to settle the dispute we have removed £86.00 from your damages, if you don't accept the resolution the charges remain at £436.00.

Your conditional O/S balance is £350.00.

What Next

You may contact our collection function (0333-207-5582) to pay by debit card, request a repayment plan or alternately make
a bank transfer using the details below:

Payee: FCA Automotive Services UK Ltd
Account number: 33072428
Sort code: 20-00-00
Reference: 21658565

Kind regards,

Alvin – Fleet Operations






FCA Automotive Services UK Ltd

240 Bath Road, Slough, Berkshire,

SL1 4DX, United Kingdom



Tel. +44(0) 344 561 4997

Fcafleetoperations@fcagroup.com



Warning

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FCA Automotive Services UK Ltd, 240 Bath Road, Slough, Berkshire SL1 4DX, Registered in England and Wales, Registered Number: 2739931 | FCA Dealer Services UK Ltd, 240 Bath Road, Slough, Berkshire SL1 4DX, Registered in England and Wales, Registered Number: 4569800 | Leasys UK Ltd, 240 Bath Road, Slough, Berkshire SL1 4DX, Registered in England and Wales, Registered Number: 3385187



FCA Automotive Services UK Ltd is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (Firm Reference Number 312683). Leasys UK Ltd is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (Firm Reference Number 664865).

[R0b]

Hello

No change in position than anyone else when it comes to collection charges and damage to the vehicle. If they want to reinstate the charges if you don't agree then I guess them do that? They have to prove that the charges were reasonable and proportionate. They are unlikely to go to court on it and even if they did they would struggle to claim that much money.

Whether you want to pay them is up to you, though do be aware some lenders report to credit ref agencies adverse entries so which will likely have to result in you taking them to court over it so you'll need to decide whether to pay up or stand your ground.

[Kingmonkey77]

R0b Thanks mate, much appreciated. I'll keep the forum posted with what's happens