Repair / Rejecting car options - with finance on car.

[MrMarlow]

Hey all,

This is my first real post here (I did do a brief introduction post prior to this), so please forgive the incoming post length and potential lack of required information.

So, here goes everything.

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Sunday 3rd June 2018

I visit CarShop in Northampton to view and test drive an Insignia which I liked. I believe I made some mistakes in judgement at this point for the following reasons;

1. There was a cigarette burn in the drivers seat, which was just so out of view of all photographs of the car on CarShop website. I decided that I'd look past this issue as overall, it didn't bother me too much, and the finance agreement is for 60 months and wouldn't affect value too much at that point in time anyway. Also didn't think to have this documented, as this is my first time financing a car and was totally overwhelmed by it all, to be honest.

2. The service light was on the dash, but again I overlooked this issue (and in hindsight, stupidly didn't request that be documented either) as the salesman assured me that if I called in tomorrow, customer service would have that looked at.

Probably worthy of note: This was on a Sunday when they close at 5pm, and we are already running later than they should be open, as it's around 5:10pm already.

3. No service history, sat nav card or second key was with the car although I was shown the pictures of everything on the system and they did say I'd receive these parts in the post.

Worth noting : See tomorrow (4th) for update on #2 and as stated, I have received all documents etc since this date


Monday 4th June 2018

I called CarShop customer services and in all honesty, they were fine and did as the salesman said they would - and they sent me to the local Halford's Autocenter for diagnostics, which was 2 days later.


Wednesday 6th June 2018

Halfords inform me the diagnostics return glow plug malfunction, and there is a code in history for intermittent handbrake malfunction, although this may not be an issue as it's in historic codes and could have been resolved since but codes not cleared. Whilst some would consider glowplugs a service item, and some not, they still trigger the service light/notice regardless.

I go home, call CarShop customer services and get it booked into Halfords for the following Wednesday.


Wednesday 13th June 2018

I drop the car off in the morning, to find out I will be losing it for the entire day, so end up having to book a day off work as a result - this was probably oversight on my part, so I can live with this.

Anyway, I pick the car up, the service light is gone and I'm on my merry little way.


One day during week commencing 18th June 2018

I notice a noise when releasing the accelerator, which can only be described as the sound of a cow mooing. I check online and try and see what it is, and can pretty much say with some certainty that it implies the boost value is about dead OR there is a leak in the turbo boost hose system, so again I call CarShop customer services and let them know about the issue, to which they want to have it diagnosed, so book me in again at Halfords.


Wednesday 27th June 2018

So I drop the car off again to halfords, this time accepting the fact it's gone for the day and head off home, awaiting the call. I finally get the call, and head down to find out the fateful news.

Halfords let me know that whilst nothing comes up for the boost value, which another mechanic there informed me that a boost valve (or split hose) would not trigger an error code anyway, they did inform me that whilst not the hand brake malfunction showing this time, there was an error for "Lost Communication with Electronic Brake Control Module" (Error Code : U0121).

Now, I'm no mechanic but I do work in web development, so know my way round google quite well, so with the information from Halfords, alone with googling the code, I am sure this is again, brake related, which could be related to the handbrake error previously, perhaps?

Anywho, Halfords have informed them that they need to have it booked into Vauxhall themselves for proper diagnosis on the Tech2 system, so they can test all electrical components individually and track down where the issue lays.


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Some brief facts;


1. I have owned the car for a whole 24 days, of which 2 days it has been in a garage being diagnosed, and fixed, with 3 total visits to the garage (the first diagnostics was not a booking, or a full day affair).

2. I am aware CarShop only allow a 7 day exchange if you change your mind, so I am out of this period.

3. I am also aware of the 30 day period, and 6 months period I am covered by under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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To be honest, I am totally on the fence on whether to start the rejection process with Black Horse who provided the finance, or not, as I am not 100% where I stand with this. Ideally, it would be nice if I could swap the car outside of the 7 day period CarShop give, as they have on the whole been reasonable and straight down the line, and they have another insignia I'd be happy with in the immediate ball park figure of the initial finance value, but again, this raises concerns for me, such as;

1. Could they even do this? I'm unsure if this is even an option once finance agreements are finalised, with a car registration attached, etc.
2. If they could (and would) do this, and I chose to do this, would I lose any rights under the CRA?
3. If they could (and would) and I wouldn't lose rights under the CRA, could the warranty period transfer, rendering me with less warranty on the replacement car?


Outside of the above, I would probably consider starting the rejection process as stated, but I even have questions regarding that too.

1. Would I have to contest anything to reject the car at this point?
2. Is there ever an easy journey through rejection? I've read some horror stories tonight researching this!
3. Would I even be allowed to just reject it? I think I would given my understanding, but am I missing something?
4. If I choose to hold off on the rejection process, and give CarShop the chance to correct it, given this will almost certainly push me over the 30 day mark and into the 6 month clause terrain?


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If anybody needs any more information, please do let me know. I'll do my best to answer.

I'm just really frustrated and stressed as a result of this because I sold my last car to cover the initial deposit for this car, so now have no fall back car and from what I am reading, rejecting is potentially going to put me in a tricky situation where I have no car, which I can't afford to be without as I have to juggle work travel with school runs etc - turns a 30 minute work to school run into potentially 3 buses and 2 hours of travel, before even calculating how long to get home after that.

And now, I'm going to head to bed and pray that when I wake, I at least have some advice and re-assurances about this process.

[Setmefree3]

Hopefully someone will come to your post with experience in such matters.

[Amethyst]

Personally, and just pending others views, I would reject the vehicle while still within your 30 days using your short term right to reject. This isn't a single one off problem with the car and it will just continue and be a continual pain in the butt …. I've read some horrendous reviews of carshop's after sales customer service too.

Who is the car finance with ?

R0b des8

[des8]

Hi again
Viewing past experience I would agree with Amethyst and like to say email Black Horse and reject the vehicle as unsatisfactory.
However you have a problem in that you have agreed for the vehicle to be repaired.
This cancels your short term right to reject until the next problem arises, by which time you may be out of the 30 day window, although whilst the vehicle is being repaired the clock stops.

Regarding the problems you have coping without a set of wheels.I would suggest a visit to dealer pointing out that under the Consumer Rights Act 2015:

sec 23 (2)If the consumer requires the trader to repair or replace the goods, the trader must—
(a)do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer

If they fail to come up with a suggestion point out the same act permits you to make a claim for damages and you therefore intend to hire a car and will charge it up to them.

[MrMarlow]

Personally, and just pending others views, I would reject the vehicle while still within your 30 days using your short term right to reject. This isn't a single one off problem with the car and it will just continue and be a continual pain in the butt …. I've read some horrendous reviews of carshop's after sales customer service too.

Who is the car finance with ?

The car finance is with Black Horse, who I've also not read the greatest reviews about. That said, I have read some decent reviews also, so hopefully I'm not one of the unlucky ones.

Hi again
Viewing past experience I would agree with Amethyst and like to say email Black Horse and reject the vehicle as unsatisfactory.

However you have a problem in that you have agreed for the vehicle to be repaired.

This cancels your short term right to reject until the next problem arises, by which time you may be out of the 30 day window, although whilst the vehicle is being repaired the clock stops.

Regarding the problems you have coping without a set of wheels.I would suggest a visit to dealer pointing out that under the Consumer Rights Act 2015:

sec 23 (2)If the consumer requires the trader to repair or replace the goods, the trader must—
(a)do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer

If they fail to come up with a suggestion point out the same act permits you to make a claim for damages and you therefore intend to hire a car and will charge it up to them.

Thanks for the reply des.

A few points to your reply;


1. Given I raised the issue regarding the boost valve, which was not actually diagnosed, and the diagnosis actually returned another error, have I agreed to a repair on that if, at this point, I've had no further contact with them? They haven't asked me if they should repair it, it's not actually booked in anywhere at this point, and I have not asked them to fix the latest issue found in this instance.

Maybe I am misunderstanding a fact, such as by accepting diagnostics for one issue and another arising as a result, then maybe I have agreed somehow?

I'm happy to be corrected and advised, regarding this. Apparently CarShop should be in contact with me today, so is this the time at which I reject further repairs?


2. Regarding "If they fail to come up with a suggestion", can you clarify? If their suggestion was to swap cars for another they have, would that be a suitable suggestion, and one I could/should accept without waiving any/all rights?


Appreciate all replies so far.

Edit Depending on the outcome of the replies to the above, and if they would actually offer a replacement, I am tempted by another Insignia they have (Reg: VX63ZXK) on their website. Didn't add complete link, as not sure linking directly to their website is the best idea, etc.

As stated before, they haven't been the worst company to deal with so far, and I feel writing off an entire company, or product line of cars due to one bad egg would be a little extreme. Obviously, if I waive any rights or warranty periods, that are not identical to if I'd have picked the car up as a new finance deal, I'd not be interested.

[des8]

Basically you cannot waive your statutory rights No one can simply waive how a law or act of parliament applies to them.
I can't say what would be a suitable suggestion for you.
You need to negotiate with them and see if you can come to a solution which you find satisfactory.
Take into account that you want court as a very last resort.
It is slow, and once you have rejected the car you should stop driving it.
Court takes a long time and is stressful and a bit of a lottery
Resolution via negotiation is best !

Regarding the boost valve : if you are using short term right to reject you have to prove the fault existed at time of sale. As Halfords were unable to confirm a fault you will probably need to obtain a specialist engineer's report.
Regarding the brake fault: I would think a judge would consider that you had agreed that the car should be brought to a satisfactory condition, and this means they have the right to attempt a repair on any faults already discovered and which might be discovered whilst repairs are on going. The Act is not worded as regards dealing with specific faults, and in a recent case the judge allowed the dealer to continue with repairs in similar circumstances.

The fault thrown up by the code could be very simple, even just a poor earth or blown fuse
It just needs a sparky to trace it

[MrMarlow]

Update.

Today I have spoken to Black Horse regarding the issue and they were quite helpful to be honest.

They stated I had 2 immediate options, which were;

1. to raise a complaint with them and they could then get in touch with CarShop and start proceedings.
2. call CarShop and see what options they would offer. I was also informed that even if no agreement could be made with CarShop, I could call again and initiate #1.

So I decide to call CarShop and at present have the following information to share;

1. They accept the car has a fault.

2. Since they do not have an account with Vauxhall to settle bills via, I would have to book it in myself and they reimburse the value. Which I did NOT accept as suitable, as quite frankly, if this get's expensive, I don't have the funds laying around to just throw at Vauxhall and wait for their reimbursement as my partner is currently off work and only receiving SSP, so I am covering the entire household bills on effectively 1 wage.

3. They are not willing to extend the 7 days exchange period at this point, so an exchange is out of the question. Worth noting, the team leader did say "for now".

4. If I want to reject the car, I need to do this via email.

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So, at this point, I don't think I am any closer to resolution, but they aren't claiming that I have agreed to the car being repaired to satisfactory standard, which I would have expected if they felt that was the case.

With that in mind, if they are saying I would have to arrange, and outlay all funds initially, for a Vauxhall diagnosis, am I not technically repairing it myself?

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Does this alter anything that has previously been stated above? I don't want to get too close to that 30 day mark and feel I'm left with no other choice, just to attempt rejection, fail and be stuck with a car that could become a money pit.

Any further suggestions with the above information?

[des8]

"They accept the car has a fault" is a slam dunk for you if you can get it in writing.

As you requested /agreed (by action if not verbally) a repair they have to attempt this at no cost or inconvenience to you (CRA 2015 sec22 (2)a & b)

Now go back to Black Horse, tell them of the outcome and tell them you are rejecting the vehicle as unsatisfactory and not fit for purpose (faulty brakes?)
If you haven't asked BH to repair the vehicle, you have not compromised your short term right to reject
You are not raising a complaint but are rejecting the vehicle.
If you have the facility, do record the conversation (first telling BH), but in any event confirm it in writing (email acceptable) as you might need a paper trial

Alternatively you can use their non cooperation to request BH to organise the repair , you get a price reduction and/or compensation for the inconvenience that has been caused. Those earlier repairs by dealer should have been at their cost (includes collection and delivery by them) and no inconvenience to you.

Depends what you want and how good a negotiator you are!!


And i like " They are not willing to extend the 7 days exchange period at this point"
Cheeky buggers... reject then and tell them you wouldn't accept an exchange anyway. They've suddenly lost a sale and a potential future customer plus more bad publicity.

[MrMarlow]

"They accept the car has a fault" is a slam dunk for you if you can get it in writing.

Sadly, once I moved to email contact, they don't seem to be so forthcoming with the word "fault".

However, I did call them earlier and stated that I needed email confirmation on their period of repayment IF I chose to pay Vauxhall for diagnostics myself. I was quite clear on the IF and asked them to confirm the details via email.

During the phone call, the woman said "You would be paid within 10 days", but the email then states "As stated earlier, payment would be made within 10 to 14 days.". Nice shift of 4 days, instantly.

By cheque, no less. In 2018, with internet being a thing, why do companies still think cheques with 3-7 day clearance times are acceptable?

I did send a response, in the hope they did in fact address the fact they know their is a faulty as diagnostics have already been done.

While she didn't actually agree with what I said, she also didn't deny any part of it - is not rejecting the version of events, deemed as acceptance? I shall include the emails with this post.

As you requested /agreed (by action if not verbally) a repair they have to attempt this at no cost or inconvenience to you (CRA 2015 sec22 (2)a & b)

Would I be correct in thinking that even their suggestions above are even in breach of this clause, even if I did choose to do it - I have no plan to - as even though they would re-imburse, it is an initial cost to myself... and an inconvenience?

Now go back to Black Horse, tell them of the outcome and tell them you are rejecting the vehicle as unsatisfactory and not fit for purpose (faulty brakes?)

Should I first do this by phone call, with a follow up email, or just fire the email straight off to them?

If you haven't asked BH to repair the vehicle, you have not compromised your short term right to reject.
You are not raising a complaint but are rejecting the vehicle. If you have the facility, do record the conversation (first telling BH), but in any event confirm it in writing (email acceptable) as you might need a paper trial

To be clear, in case it hasn't been so far, I have not asked BH for anything - I just called them to inform them that I am considering rejecting the car based on all the facts provided here.

Alternatively you can use their non cooperation to request BH to organise the repair, you get a price reduction and/or compensation for the inconvenience that has been caused. Those earlier repairs by dealer should have been at their cost (includes collection and delivery by them) and no inconvenience to you.

To clarify, would I ask for a price reduction/compensation from BH in this instance, or would that fall with CarShop?

Depends what you want and how good a negotiator you are!!

To be honest, I'd be happy to just have a working car, but given all the details I am not confident this car won't become a money drain and I do not want to get to the point that I have lost a lot of my rights due to time constraints and rejecting/repair becomes a royal pain in the behind.

And i like " They are not willing to extend the 7 days exchange period at this point"
Cheeky buggers... reject then and tell them you wouldn't accept an exchange anyway. They've suddenly lost a sale and a potential future customer plus more bad publicity.

Indeed. I did find that funny and a part of me did wonder, if/when I start the rejection request, how quickly they would be looking at trying to get me to accept an exchange.

I can be rather stubborn when annoyed, and I feel their denial to that request was unreasonable, so if they did attempt that - out of principle of me giving them the chance - I doubt they would want to agree to what I'd be requesting. Today, I'd have accepting the same, or similar, price point. Given then are now making it difficult, and in my opinion being unreasonable, I'd be asking for a more expensive car, but as compensation for the everything, I'd want it price dropped to the price of mine and re-financed.

I doubt they would go for it, but on principle, I'd potentially just be as unreasonable as them, as I don't deem my request to exchange as unreasonable.


Note : Having just put the emails into a single file to be able to attach, I did notice that whilst they didn't actually state there was a fault, they did state they would extend the hour limit if I did send it in for further diagnostics, as I stated that as Halfords had already diagnosed fault, would an extension of the 1 hour limit be authorized given there is a fault.

I understand wording is open to interpretation, so I may be being hopeful for nothing, but I'll await advice.

[MrMarlow]

Whilst I am waiting on advise here, I have drafted up a quick rejection letter, so would also appreciate any advice on if this is correct format and covers enough bases.

[des8]

Sorry for delay in responding but I had to go out this a.m.
Telephone BH first (no need to jeopardise what might be a reasonable relationship) but do confirm in writing.

That is not a quick rejection letter !
You don't need to write one yet if you keep to emails.
When rejecting you cannot claim for work that was not authorised by the finance house.
They should have been advised of the problems as they are the vehicle owners. You then reject or request repair which they authorise

You are now rejecting the car as unsatisfactory.
It is for you to prove that the existing faults render the vehicle unsatisfactory, taking into account the car's age, mileage and price



" I am not confident this car won't become a money drain".... and there was me thinking all cars were a big black money pit

[MrMarlow]

Sorry for delay in responding but I had to go out this a.m.
Telephone BH first (no need to jeopardise what might be a reasonable relationship) but do confirm in writing.

I have now spoken to BH, who have filed it as a complaint and are, from what I gather, investigating it as a "request to reject vehicle".

Would you suggest anything I should perhaps call again to clarify? They did state that they need to investigate liability, which gives them 8 weeks to do.

BH did say that it was my choice on whether to drive the car or not, though, which left me a little confused.

Am I right in assuming I should not be driving it at this point? Whether they implied I could or not?

That is not a quick rejection letter !

Oops, maybe my idea of quick is pretty poor. To be fair, I did take a letter from another thread and edit to suit, so I don't actually have a lot of time invested in it, since I used half of their letter and copy and pasted a lot from here.

When rejecting you cannot claim for work that was not authorised by the finance house. They should have been advised of the problems as they are the vehicle owners. You then reject or request repair which they authorise

I have to ask now. Who's responsibility is it to advise them of problems? I'm hoping the onus isn't on me and I have done something wrong here.

On me not being able to claim, duly noted and should I need to officially issue this letter, I shall redact those points - and potentially re-write the whole thing.

You are now rejecting the car as unsatisfactory. It is for you to prove that the existing faults render the vehicle unsatisfactory, taking into account the car's age, mileage and price

" I am not confident this car won't become a money drain".... and there was me thinking all cars were a big black money pit

If you met my previous car, you would understand there is a lot more depth to that black hole than you can see. I had so much work done to that, that the car parts place all the parts were bought from decided to change my car registration on invoices to "REBUILT VECTRA BOY"

[des8]

I have now spoken to BH, who have filed it as a complaint and are, from what I gather, investigating it as a "request to reject vehicle".
Not a request but an informing

Would you suggest anything I should perhaps call again to clarify? They did state that they need to investigate liability, which gives them 8 weeks to do.
No, just confirm the conversation but note
CRA 2015 sec 20 (15) states "A refund under this section must be given without undue delay, and in any event within 14 days beginning with the day on which the trader agrees that the consumer is entitled to a refund".
Point out in your opinion 8 weeks is excessive and during that time you will be incurring further losses which they will have to reimburse.
eg hire a car, unless they authorise in writing permission for you to continue using their vehicle.
Remind them that as the car is being rejected under the short term right they will not be able to make a deduction for usage.

BH did say that it was my choice on whether to drive the car or not, though, which left me a little confused.
As above

Am I right in assuming I should not be driving it at this point? Whether they implied I could or not?
If for no other reason than if you have an accident whilst driving it: that will complicate matters




Oops, maybe my idea of quick is pretty poor. To be fair, I did take a letter from another thread and edit to suit, so I don't actually have a lot of time invested in it, since I used half of their letter and copy and pasted a lot from here.




I have to ask now. Who's responsibility is it to advise them of problems? I'm hoping the onus isn't on me and I have done something wrong here.
You haven't done anything wrong, but as the car is owned by BH and hired by you (hire purchase?) and so problems should be dealt with via the finance house.
Generally there is no problem going straight to the dealer, but when it comes to rejection some finance houses use any excuse to wriggle out of their liability. It costs them money to refund you and then have to claim the money back from the dealer!
They may well come back offering you a repair.
If the car is satisfactory other than the sensors failing I would be tempted to accept.
You still have protection in the event of further problems, and going to court can be stressful and is a bit of a lottery

On me not being able to claim, duly noted and should I need to officially issue this letter, I shall redact those points - and potentially re-write the whole thing.







If you met my previous car, you would understand there is a lot more depth to that black hole than you can see. I had so much work done to that, that the car parts place all the parts were bought from decided to change my car registration on invoices to "REBUILT VECTRA BOY"
Like it!!

Comments in red

[MrMarlow]

So, I actually passed the 30 day mark without getting the notice to CarShop, as I have had far more pressing stuff come up over the weekend regarding the children.


I'll be posting over at the family section shortly for that - at this point, I'd be happy to just have this saga end with it fixed, without inconvenience to myself - I mentally just can't process both points right now.


Is there a quick way to force repairs, without it being a major headache to myself - I feel really stupid, but I feel absolutely clueless with all of this

[Setmefree3]

Can anyone help with a solution,based on latest post.