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Help With Blackhorse VT Wording and issues

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  • Help With Blackhorse VT Wording and issues

    Hey guy,

    Thanks for all the helpful info shared in this amazing forum!
    So I started a VT following the guidelines and letters shared here but I ran into an issue.
    I've sent the letter following this template and now I received a letter claiming I owe them £460 more.
    My HP agreement clearly states the sum 6272.80 and I made a final payment of £75 to cover the difference from my last payment to go over the half sum.
    I've served them the letter before the next payment due (dated and receipt of a delivery present), but now they claim that I missed a payment and it might reflect my credit, which shouldn't be the case.
    Can anyone help me word my response letter?
    All I see in the link shared templates for excess miles but I haven't got there yet
    I can share a copy of the letter if needed.
    They claim that it is due to the extra warranty I was foolish enough to purchase, but that is included in the agreement and it shouldn't be the case either.

    Another question is should I hand them the car to a designated spot or play hardball and ask them to collect it? It's MOTed, taxed and everything, just not insured at the moment, sitting in my fenced driveway.

    Any help is appreciated!!!
    Voluntary termination letter to lender You can use this template to give notice to terminate our agreement. Be sure to amend the template to suit your needs. Dear
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Here is a copy of the agreement in case it will help:

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi guys, I have a major issue with BlackHorse.
      After following rspiston theme and basically in the same situation, Black Horse is refusing to budge.
      Now they've put a mark on my credit as a late payment and I don't know what to do.
      Should I go the lawyer route and sue them?
      I don't want to ruin my credit with this thing.
      R0b They responded to my complaint - the same template as you suggested in the Rspiston's thread - he/she is in the same situation.
      Now they're still refusing the accept the VT without me paying 400+ quid for the extra warranty, which is on the same agreement that should be void after VT, at least in my book.
      Any suggestion what should be my next step?
      How do I go about removing the mark on my credit?

      Comment


      • #4
        1. Negotiate a payment and removal of the late payment markers (in writing) and have the account marked as closed.
        2. Pay them and then issue a claim for undue influence, negligent misstatement and/or breach of data protection.
        3. Don't pay them and sue for negligent misstatement and/or breach of data protection.
        4. Complain to the Financial Ombudsman. Expect to wait a while and the likelihood is that they will side with Barclays.

        If you can't do it yourself, see if a lawyer will take it on for you.

        I suggest you read the last few pages of the link below for an example letter before action.

        http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...-mileage/page4
        Check out some useful guides below

        A guide to voluntary termination
        Seting aside a CCJ
        Completing an N180 Form

        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        LEGAL DISCLAIMER
        Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Some of the content I post may include example wording, letters, or other similar responses but they are intended purely for informational and educational purposes. Using some or all of the content I post may fail to meet your needs that is specific to your situation. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice and you can do this through the Law Society's Find a Solicitor database, by contacting your local Citizen's Advice Bureau or legal advice centres such as LawWorks. You may also be able to seek legal advice from your local university who may run a free (but limited) legal advice clinic to members of the public.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by R0b View Post
          1. Negotiate a payment and removal of the late payment markers (in writing) and have the account marked as closed.
          2. Pay them and then issue a claim for undue influence, negligent misstatement and/or breach of data protection.
          3. Don't pay them and sue for negligent misstatement and/or breach of data protection.
          4. Complain to the Financial Ombudsman. Expect to wait a while and the likelihood is that they will side with Barclays.

          If you can't do it yourself, see if a lawyer will take it on for you.

          I suggest you read the last few pages of the link below for an example letter before action.

          http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...-mileage/page4
          R0b, thanks for the quick response!

          how do I negotiate a payment? They refuse to budge on the phone and it costs me great deal of stress talking to them on the phone - they're pretty bully.
          Are you saying I should pay the 400 quid and sue them back for it? Is it worth it?
          Do you have any idea who to contact about the mark on my credit?
          The car is sitting on my driveway since May and I just want it gone and be over with.

          Thanks again for the quick response.
          I'm not at all comfortable writing legal letters and all that.

          Comment


          • #6
            If the car has been sitting there since May then I would have sent them notice of your intention to sell the car and given them 7 days to collect it. They have had more than enough time.

            If they are not moving on the outstanding balance then there isn't much more you can do other than the options I suggested. Personally if it were me I wouldn't pay them and instead send a letter before action and then issue a claim. If you pay them upfront it might prevent them from issuing further late payment markers but you should make it clear in any correspondence you are making the payment as a result of undue influence and you intend to issue a claim for the recovery of those sums paid.

            Unfortunately, if you aren't comfortable writing letters and taking the next step which is court then I would suggest you take the easy option and pay up or instruct a solicitor to act on your behalf.
            Check out some useful guides below

            A guide to voluntary termination
            Seting aside a CCJ
            Completing an N180 Form

            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            LEGAL DISCLAIMER
            Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Some of the content I post may include example wording, letters, or other similar responses but they are intended purely for informational and educational purposes. Using some or all of the content I post may fail to meet your needs that is specific to your situation. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice and you can do this through the Law Society's Find a Solicitor database, by contacting your local Citizen's Advice Bureau or legal advice centres such as LawWorks. You may also be able to seek legal advice from your local university who may run a free (but limited) legal advice clinic to members of the public.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hey @R0B
              I need a bit of advice.
              I just had a call with a FOS investigator who is about to force BH to honour the VT, stop further proceedings on their side and clear my credit file.
              However, he is still not quite convnced about the extra warranty I dumbly purchased.
              So the situation is as follows.
              I have one HP agreement where the insurance is added in an extra space under Financial Information - Insurance, much like @RSPISTON's case here - https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...ck-horse/page2
              So BH lied to the FOS investigator that the agreement is for one year and I already had the "pleasure" of enjoing it.
              However, there was a free year cover from the dealer and then two extra years of Honda Care insurance, running out this year - May 2019.
              How do I convince the investigator that I shouldn't be liable (IMHO) for this as it is all in one contract - I don't have a separate agreement for the extra insurance finance.
              You mentioned this idea somewhere in the forum a while back but I can't fnd it at the moment.

              Thanks!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chipsybg View Post
                Hey @R0B
                I need a bit of advice.
                I just had a call with a FOS investigator who is about to force BH to honour the VT, stop further proceedings on their side and clear my credit file.
                However, he is still not quite convnced about the extra warranty I dumbly purchased.
                So the situation is as follows.
                I have one HP agreement where the insurance is added in an extra space under Financial Information - Insurance, much like @RSPISTON's case here - https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...ck-horse/page2
                So BH lied to the FOS investigator that the agreement is for one year and I already had the "pleasure" of enjoing it.
                However, there was a free year cover from the dealer and then two extra years of Honda Care insurance, running out this year - May 2019.
                How do I convince the investigator that I shouldn't be liable (IMHO) for this as it is all in one contract - I don't have a separate agreement for the extra insurance finance.
                You mentioned this idea somewhere in the forum a while back but I can't fnd it at the moment.

                Thanks!
                S100 CCA 1974 is clear on VT liabilities,
                100Liability of debtor on termination of hire-purchase etc. agreement.

                (1)Where a regulated hire-purchase or regulated conditional sale agreement is terminated under section 99 the debtor shall be liable, unless the agreement provides for a smaller payment, or does not provide for any payment, to pay to the creditor the amount (if any) by which one-half of the total price exceeds the aggregate of the sums paid and the sums due in respect of the total price immediately before the termination.
                Half of the total price includes any ancillary credit, such as warranties, thats the normal position at least. I couldnt check the agreement you posted to see if it gave the info needed, as its too small when i open a copy on my screen and i cannot zoom in
                I work for Wannops LLP . I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

                If you need to contact me please email me on Ptilley@wannops.com . My firms initial advice is always free.

                I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

                You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  See if this is more readable xx

                  The termination 50% figure is given as £6272 - 50% of the purchase+interest (box F) and thus not including the additional warranty insurances.

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	image_34002.png Views:	1 Size:	803.9 KB ID:	1449067
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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've been doing some further reading into this and without getting too bogged down in the detail, it is possible that despite there being a HP agreement for credit and a section relating to other insurance products, they could amount to being two separate agreements rather than a single all encompassing agreement.

                    I guess the primary argument is as what PT has suggested; the HP agreement is a single agreement that encompasses the HP credit together with any ancillary products such as GAP insurance. You can see from the agreement that the way in which the agreement has been drafted, you are paying one single monthly instalment and one direct debit. Therefore, the agreement falls under one roof and so when you terminate under Section 99, the limited liability cap kicks in so anything over and above 50% is not recoverable, including, as PT said, any ancillary credit.

                    The alternative argument to that is, if the insurance is found to be an entirely separate agreement from the HP one (for whatever reason that might be), then you shouldn't have to pay anymore because BH had broken the terms of the agreement. You only wrote to BH to give notice to terminate the HP side of things, and not any additional insurance products. What BH have done instead, is treat the insurance agreement as terminated (which is not what you asked for), thus they have accelerated the outstanding balance of the insurance amount and are now demanding it to be paid in full, not by way of instalments over a fixed period of time as originally agreed. By choosing to terminate the agreement of their own accord, BH have substantially deprived you of the benefit of the arrangement, that is to say, you agreed to pay X amount per month until it was paid off. Therefore, BH are in fundamental breach of contract and so they should not benefit from their own wrongdoing.

                    Bit of a waffle, but there's your two options - argue both or just one, up to you. Alternatively you could offer to pay the insurance on the original terms by instalments? I'm assuming the most important thing here is getting adverse entries off your credit file - and if you can, push for compensation as a result of BH's behaviour and the way they have gone about things causing damage to your credit file as well as the stress and inconvenience.
                    Check out some useful guides below

                    A guide to voluntary termination
                    Seting aside a CCJ
                    Completing an N180 Form

                    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                    Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Some of the content I post may include example wording, letters, or other similar responses but they are intended purely for informational and educational purposes. Using some or all of the content I post may fail to meet your needs that is specific to your situation. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice and you can do this through the Law Society's Find a Solicitor database, by contacting your local Citizen's Advice Bureau or legal advice centres such as LawWorks. You may also be able to seek legal advice from your local university who may run a free (but limited) legal advice clinic to members of the public.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by R0b View Post
                      I've been doing some further reading into this and without getting too bogged down in the detail, it is possible that despite there being a HP agreement for credit and a section relating to other insurance products, they could amount to being two separate agreements rather than a single all encompassing agreement.

                      I guess the primary argument is as what PT has suggested; the HP agreement is a single agreement that encompasses the HP credit together with any ancillary products such as GAP insurance. You can see from the agreement that the way in which the agreement has been drafted, you are paying one single monthly instalment and one direct debit. Therefore, the agreement falls under one roof and so when you terminate under Section 99, the limited liability cap kicks in so anything over and above 50% is not recoverable, including, as PT said, any ancillary credit.

                      The alternative argument to that is, if the insurance is found to be an entirely separate agreement from the HP one (for whatever reason that might be), then you shouldn't have to pay anymore because BH had broken the terms of the agreement. You only wrote to BH to give notice to terminate the HP side of things, and not any additional insurance products. What BH have done instead, is treat the insurance agreement as terminated (which is not what you asked for), thus they have accelerated the outstanding balance of the insurance amount and are now demanding it to be paid in full, not by way of instalments over a fixed period of time as originally agreed. By choosing to terminate the agreement of their own accord, BH have substantially deprived you of the benefit of the arrangement, that is to say, you agreed to pay X amount per month until it was paid off. Therefore, BH are in fundamental breach of contract and so they should not benefit from their own wrongdoing.

                      Bit of a waffle, but there's your two options - argue both or just one, up to you. Alternatively you could offer to pay the insurance on the original terms by instalments? I'm assuming the most important thing here is getting adverse entries off your credit file - and if you can, push for compensation as a result of BH's behaviour and the way they have gone about things causing damage to your credit file as well as the stress and inconvenience.
                      I agree, it depends on whether this is a single agreement or a multiple agreement.
                      I work for Wannops LLP . I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

                      If you need to contact me please email me on Ptilley@wannops.com . My firms initial advice is always free.

                      I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

                      You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

                      Comment

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