Civil Enforcement Ltd PCN Notice

[thsimcock]

My daughter had a parking ticket from Civil Enforcement Ltd exceeding a time limit 15 mins over the 3 hour limit, she had bought a 'Spa Day' at a Fitness Centre which had a Car Park adjacent which was fully free until a few days beforehand (They changed the rules during the xmas holidays 27th December and the PCN Incident was 29th December) . .A parking ticket arrived a week or so later from CEL wanting £100 or £60 if paid/received within 14 days.
As that period was almost up because their letter wasn't recieved until mid January we paid the £60
I tried to appeal against it but had difficulty in understanding what exactly I had to do,so I sent them an e-mail on 19th January requesting 'some advice from them as how to appeal the fine',... my final sentence was 'I look forward to your help which will be most appreciated' .
However they wrote back on 22nd January entitled 'Response to Representation' referring to 'my recent letter'(But I had not sent them a letter... just an e-mail enquiry on how to appeal) saying that the Enforcement Notice' remains valid and they were unable to cancel it, and were unable to refund the £60 already paid.
They went on to say that if I am unhappy with their decision I can appeal to POPLA and gave me a verification code for them, however the rules say if I do appeal to them and are unsuccessful then we have a pay another £40.!!
My daughter is on the minimum wage so these fines for this are very high indeed for her to pay,especially at xmas/new year time..her xmas spa day treat for herself and friend fell very flat subsequently.
In addition the Civil Enforcement Ltd Rules state that only only written appeals by letter would be considered, it seems to me they do not follow their own rules.
Is there any point in appealing to POPLA and risk losing another £40.
I think if anyone has a 'ticket from these people I think perhaps they should consider ignoring it, it seems pointless to even attempt to get advice from them on how to appeal it anyway.
I thought these people were 'Approved' by the BCP Association it does not say much for the so called 'Standards' they set to me.

[mystery1]

Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd PCN Notice

Well a popla code is not a bad thing. I'll sort an appeal asap. (could be towards the end of the week)

M1

[mystery1]

Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd PCN Notice

Firstly complain to the Spa itself.

At the same time (because time is of the essence) appeal to popla ( http://www.popla.org.uk/ ) along the lines of :-

I wish to appeal this parking charge on the following grounds.








1. The charges are penalties and not a contractual charge, breach of contract or trespass. They are not a genuine pre estimate of loss either.




2. In order to form a contract the signs need to be clear so that they must be seen by an average person. They were not. There was no breach of contract.




3. Civil Enforcement Limited (CEL) do not hold sufficient interest in the land to offer a motorist a contract to park. They have no locus standi.




4. CEL have failed to adhere to the BPA code of practice.




5. Unreliable, unsynchronised and non-compliant ANPR system.






1.The charges are penalties.




The charges are represented as a breach of contract or trespass. Whilst it is disputed that a contract was entered into (see point 2) according to the BPA code "If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a act of trespass, this charge must be proportionate and commercially justifiable. We would not expect this amount to be more than £100. If the charge is more than this, operators must be able to justify the amount in advance"




£100 is clearly not proportionate to a stay in a car park in which the vehicle was entitled to be in but not for over 3 hours. Neither is it commercially justified because it would make no sense. CEL want to charge a motorist who paid for a full spa day at the location. There was no loss and certainly can be no genuine pre estimate of loss.


I require CEL to submit a full breakdown of how these losses are calculated in this particular car park and for this particular ‘contravention’. CEL cannot lawfully include their operational day to day running costs (e.g. provision of signs, ANPR and parking enforcement) in any ‘loss’ claimed. Not only are those costs tax deductible, but were no breaches to occur in that car park, the cost of parking 'enforcement ' would still remain the same.




According to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges for breach on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the time the motorist is parked there. As the landowner imposes a parking fee for the area in question, there is only the limited loss to whoever it is due. The Office of Fair Trading has stated that ''a ‘parking charge’ is not automatically recoverable simply because it is stated to be a parking charge, as it cannot be used to state a loss where none exists.''




In Parking Eye v Beavis it was found that the charges were penalties although specific to that car park they were commercially Justifiable in a car park where the operator had paid a significant sum to run the car park and caused a loss which clearly can't be in this case as there is nothing to say that CEL pay money to run the carpark. It is akin to a claim in trespass which must be a genuine pre estimate of loss but clearly the £100 is not.




2. Unclear and non-compliant signage, forming no contract with drivers.




I require signage evidence in the form of a site map and dated photos of the signs at the time of the parking event. I would contend that the signs (wording, position and clarity) fail to properly inform the driver of the terms and any consequences for breach, as in the case of Excel Parking Services Ltd v Martin Cutts, 2011. As such, the signs were not so prominent that they 'must' have been seen by the driver - who would never have agreed to pay £100 in a free car park - and therefore I contend the elements of a contract were conspicuous by their absence. If it is dark it is not good enough for signs just to be present, they must be able to be seen. As per 1 above i contend there were no signs at entry and nothing that said payment must be made within 10 minutes.








3.. Contract with landowner - no locus standi
CEL do not own nor have any interest or assignment of title of the land in question. As such, I do not believe that CEL has the necessary legal capacity to enter into a contract with a driver of a vehicle parking in the car park, or indeed to allege a breach of contract. Accordingly, I require sight of a full copy of the actual contemporaneous, signed and dated site agreement/contract with the landowner (and not just a signed slip of paper saying that it exists). Some parking companies have provided “witness statements” instead of the relevant contract. There is no proof whatsoever that the alleged signatory has ever seen the relevant contract, or, indeed is even an employee of the landowner. Nor would a witness statement show whether there is a payment made from either party within the agreement/contract which would affect any 'loss' calculations. Nor would it show whether the contract includes the necessary authority, required by the BPA CoP, to specifically allow CEL to pursue these charges in their own name as creditor in the Courts, and to grant them the standing/assignment of title to make contracts with drivers.




In POPLA case reference 1771073004, POPLA ruled that a witness statement was 'not valid evidence'. This witness statement concerned evidence which could have been produced but was not. So if the operator produces a witness statement mentioning the contract, but does not produce the actual un-redacted contract document, then POPLA should be consistent and rule any such statement invalid.




So I require the unredacted contract for all these stated reasons as I contend the Operator's authority is limited to that of a mere parking agent. I believe it is merely a standard business agreement between CEL and their client, which is true of any such business model. This cannot impact upon, nor create a contract with, any driver, as was found in case no. 3JD00517 ParkingEye v Clarke 19th December 2013 (Transcript linked): http://nebula.wsimg.com/71a4eb1b5de2...essKeyId=4CB8F 2392A09CF228A46&disposition=0&alloworigin=1




In that case the Judge found that, as the Operator did not own any title in the car park: 'The decision to determine whether it is damages for breach...or a penalty...is really not for these Claimants but...for the owners. We have a rather bizarre situation where the Claimants make no money apparently from those who comply with the terms...and make their profit from those who are in breach of their contract. Well that cannot be right, that is nonsense. So I am satisfied that...the Claimants are the wrong Claimants. They have not satisfied this court that they have suffered any loss...if anything, they make a profit from the breach.'




I challenge this Operator to rebut my assertion that their business model is the same 'nonsense', and is unenforceable. CEL cannot build their whole business model around profiting from those they consider to be in breach of a sign, on land where they have no locus standi, and then try to paint that profit as a perpetual loss.




I refer the Adjudicator to the recent Appeal Court decision in the case of Vehicle Control Services (VCS) v HMRC ( EWCA Civ 186 [2013]): The principal issue in this case was to determine the actual nature of Private Parking Charges.




It was stated that, "If those charges are consideration for a supply of goods or services, they will be subject to VAT. If, on the other hand, they are damages they will not be."




The ruling of the Court stated, "I would hold, therefore, that the monies that VCS collected from motorists by enforcement of parking charges were not consideration moving from the landowner in return for the supply of parking services."




In other words, they are not, as the Operator asserts, a contractual term. If they were a contractual term, the Operator would have to provide a VAT invoice, to provide a means of payment at the point of supply, and to account to HMRC for the VAT element of the charge. The Appellant asserts that these requirements have not been met. It must therefore be concluded that the Operator's charges are in fact damages, or penalties, for which the Operator must demonstrate his actual, or pre-estimated losses, as set out above.




4. Failure to adhere to the BPA code of practice.




The signs do not meet the minimum requirements in part 18. They were not clear and intelligible as required.




5. ANPR ACCURACY




This Operator is obliged to ensure their ANPR equipment is maintained as described in paragraph 21.3 of the British Parking Association's Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice. I require the Operator to present records as to the dates and times of when the cameras at this car park were checked, adjusted,calibrated, synchronised with the timer which stamps the photos and generally maintained to ensure the accuracy of the dates and times of any ANPR images.This is important because the entirety of the charge is founded on two images purporting to show my vehicle entering and exiting at specific times. It is vital that this Operator must produce evidence in response to these points and explain to POPLA how their system differs (if at all) from the flawed ANPR system which was wholly responsible for the court loss by the Operator in ParkingEye v Fox-Jones on 8 Nov 2013. That case was dismissed when the judge said the evidence form the Operator was 'fundamentally flawed' as the synchronisation of the camera pictures with the timer had been called into question and the operator could not rebut the point.




So, in addition to showing their maintenance records, I require the Operator in this case to show evidence to rebut this point: I suggest that in the case of my vehicle being in this car park, a local camera took the image but a remote server added the time stamp. As the two are disconnected by the internet and do not have a common "time synchronisation system", there is no proof that the time stamp added is actually the exact time of the image. The operator appears to use WIFI which introduces a delay through buffering, so "live" is not really "live". Hence without a synchronised time stamp there is no evidence that the image is ever time stamped with an accurate time. Therefore I contend that this ANPR "evidence" from this Operator in this car park is just as unreliable as the CEL system and I put this Operator to strict proof to the contrary.








M1