**CANCELLED** First PCN - Dont know how to approach.

[Chodu666]

Hi all,

I've just received a PCN from smart parking. I am the registered keeper but was not driving.
My wife was in a carpark for 20 minutes and 42 seconds.
She ran into town for a £12.99 refund on my daughters school shoes! Boy does she regret it now!
I'll be honest and admit she did not look at the signage and did not pay.
The charge is for £100 but £60 if paid within 14 days.
The date of the contravention was 29/10/15. The date of the letter is 3/11/15.

I know we are at fault but find the fine to be excessive.
Should i ignore, pay or appeal. If so on what grounds?

I seriously appreciate any help or advice anyone can provide.
I can upload the PCN if needed.

Many thanks.

[Chodu666]

Re: First PCN - Dont know how to approach.

I have attached the PCN.
Thanks

[mystery1]

Re: First PCN - Dont know how to approach.

It is now pretty difficult to beat a private parking ticket after yesterdays shameful shit in the supreme court. Unfairness and penalties appear to be off the menu.

That said, keeper liability is a valid defence particularly when someone else was actually driving as here.

Rightto claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle




4(1)Thecreditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from thekeeper of the vehicle.
(2)Theright under this paragraph applies only if—
(a)theconditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 and 12 (so far asapplicable) are met ....


6(1)Thesecond condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or onbehalf of the creditor)—




(b)hasgiven a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 9.




9(1)Anotice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for thepurposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with thisparagraph if the following requirements are met.
(2)Thenotice must—
(a)specifythe vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the periodof parking to which the notice relates;
(b)informthe keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges inrespect of the specified period of parking and that the parkingcharges have not been paid in full;
(c)describethe parking charges due from the driver as at the end of that period,the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose(including the means by which the requirement was brought to theattention of drivers) and the other facts that made thempayable;
(d)specifythe total amount of those parking charges that are unpaid, as at atime which is—
(i)specifiedin the notice; and
(ii)nolater than the end of the day before the day on which the notice iseither sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at acurrent address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph(4));
(e)statethat the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and acurrent address for service for the driver and invite thekeeper—
(i)topay the unpaid parking charges; or
(ii)ifthe keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditorof the name of the driver and a current address for service for thedriver and to pass the notice on to the driver;
(f)warnthe keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with theday after that on which the notice is given—
(i)theamount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d)has not been paid in full, and
(ii)thecreditor does not know both the name of the driver and a currentaddress for service for the driver,the creditor will (if all theapplicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right torecover from the keeper so much of that amount as remainsunpaid;
(g)informthe keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and thearrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that areavailable;
(h)identifythe creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification tothe creditor may be made;
(i)specifythe date on which the notice is sent (where it is sent by post) orgiven (in any other case).
(3)Thenotice must relate only to a single period of parking specified undersub-paragraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent the giving ofseparate notices which each specify different parts of a singleperiod of parking).
(4)Thenotice must be given by—
(a)handingit to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service forthe keeper, within the relevant period; or
(b)sendingit by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that itis delivered to that address within the relevant period.
(5)Therelevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the periodof 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specifiedperiod of parking ended.
(6)Anotice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved,to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes ofsub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on whichit is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any dayother than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England andWales.
(7)Whenthe notice is given it must be accompanied by any evidence prescribedunder paragraph 10.
(8)Insub-paragraph (2)(g) the reference to arrangements for the resolutionof disputes or complaints includes—
(a)anyprocedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally withrepresentations by the keeper about the notice or any mattercontained in it; and
(b)anyarrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described)may be referred by the keeper to independent adjudication orarbitration.



You can look at each requirement in 9 and see if the required information is present. I say it isn't.

9 2(a) specify time of parking.

It does not. It shows the car on entry whilst on the move and again on the move on exit. http://nebula.wsimg.com/c289944f81b4...&alloworigin=1

(b) It doesn't notify the keeper the driver is required to pay.
(e) It doesn't state they don't know driver and details.

(f) It doesn't give 28 days after the notice is given on 28 from the date on the notice and doesn't take in to account postage (2 days)

Just on a quick scan.


What i would do is

Dear Sirs,




I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals process. The driver did not see any signs. I note your notice to keeper is fundamentally flawed when compared to PoFA 2012 schedule 4 para 9.


Should you reject my appeal please supply a popla code.




Yours etc




I can't see how popla, if it goes that far can refuse an appeal.


M1

[Chodu666]

Re: First PCN - Dont know how to approach.

many thanks m1

Just two queries:

Is timing important here? Notice is dated 3rd Nov. 14 days makes it 17th Nov, 28 days makes it 1st Dec. When should i write to them with your response?

Also should i just go with what you wrote or include the points regarding 9 a,b,e and f.

Again many thanks.

[mystery1]

Re: First PCN - Dont know how to approach.

Is timing important here? Notice is dated 3rd Nov. 14 days makes it 17th Nov, 28 days makes it 1st Dec. When should i write to them with your response?

It probably won't matter to be honest but for belt and braces approach make sure they can't send a compliant notice to keeper within 14 days of the date of offence.

M1

[Chodu666]

Re: First PCN - Dont know how to approach.

so just to be sure:

Date of offence is Oct 29th.
Date of notice is Nov 3rd.

So 14 days would be 12th or 17th respectively
However in their last paragraph they reference 14/11/15.....i dont know where that date comes from?

Anyway so i should send the email on or just before the 12th, 14th or 17th???

Apologies for so many questions.

Thanks again.

[mystery1]

Re: First PCN - Dont know how to approach.

Go with any of them and you'll be fine.

I reckon the 14th came from 14 days plus 2 for service which is wrong anyway as service doesn't count.

M1

[Chodu666]

Re: First PCN - Dont know how to approach.

thank m1

i'll report back when i hear. Hopefully without a popla code!

[Chodu666]

Re: First PCN - Dont know how to approach.

Hi m1

just heard back from smart parking to say the PCN has been cancelled.

thank you for your advice and template.

[Kati]

Re: **CANCELLED** First PCN - Dont know how to approach.

I'm sure @mystery1 will be pleased :nod:

Well done :clap2: ... I've edited your thread title to show the result xx