**CANCELLED** Council-owned private car parks?

[Mosteth]

I got a PCN on my windscreen in a 'private' car park (attached) - can't really deny that the 'vehicle owner/driver left site' as the shops were closed, but a £100(/£60) charge is excessive. I am awaiting the 'notice to keeper' to arrive before I appeal (that seems to be the recommended approach - yell if not!).

I have heard that the car park is actually owned by the Council. Sounds a bit dodgy to me - can Council-owned land really be classed as 'private? - If this is the case would it make any difference to my case?

At the very least I would expect the parking charges to be in line with the penalty charges for unauthorised parking in the area...

I have dropped an FOI into the Council to see if they will tell me if they do indeed own the land.

[mystery1]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

Waiting on the NTK is correct.

M1

[Mosteth]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

Cheers!

[Mosteth]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

My NTK arrived (attached) and my FOI response came back from the council (edited):
1. The car park is the Council's freehold interest

2. The Council and UK Parking has a contract whereby the car park is managed by UK Parking. The Council does not pay a fee for this service but the contractor receives the penalty income. The Council is entitled to 10% of any net “profit” but that is seen as a windfall and is not regarded as any incentive. The purpose of entering into this arrangement was for the benefit and request of the three tenant businesses whose customers could not access those businesses due to misuse of the car park by commuters.

3. The car park is included in the leases to the three retail units whereby the car park is allocated to the customers of those businesses and the council as landlord is required to manage and maintain the car park for which the three tenants are required to pay a service charge to cover the costs.

4. The council has not incurred any expense in maintaining the car park surface since the council took over the leases from a previous tenant in September 2009.

5. The car park is not regarded as being in need of maintenance so at present there are no plans to carry out resurfacing works. Longer term, the site may be the subject of redevelopment, so the car park is expected to remain serviceable for its expected economic life.

Given the council's reason for entering a relationship with UKPC, would the fact that my car was issued a PCN after the shops were closed be a mitigating factor, is it worth mentioning this now or should I do a 'standard' appeal at this stage?

Advice gratefully received!

[Mosteth]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

Site photos...

[Mosteth]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

and these are the notices up close - you can't read them clearly in the previous pics...!

[ostell]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

If it is council owned and the council is a traffic authority or they maintain the car park then it may not be relevant land and so the keeper may not be held liable.

POFA:

In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than—
(a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);
(b) a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;
(c) any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.

[Mosteth]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

Well that would make this quite straightforward!

So if I have this right, although the land 'looks' like private land, the fact that the council owns the Freehold means that the POFA provisions can't be used to recover parking charges?

[ostell]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

So check if your council is a traffic authority and if section (a) is applicable. If either is true then you can write to UKPC and tell them it is not relevant land and therefore they can not hold the keeper liable. Go chase the driver.

[emanresu]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

Could I suggest a complaint to the DVLA about UKPC accessing Keeper information on local authority land. You can reference this letter. ANPR Ltd used to run Preston Council car parks. The basis is the same in that call councils were told to manage their car parks under PPO's and not contract.

[Mosteth]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

Thanks both!

According to POFA, all county councils, county boroughs, London boroughs and districts are traffic authorities, so it looks like a 'yes' to subsection (b). I imagine that they bought the freehold because they want to make it easier for the area to be redeveloped in the future, but the POFA seems clear on this that land controlled by a local authority is public land and therefore exempt.

I am on holiday at the mo but will draft my letters when I return and will update on the outcomes...

[Mosteth]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

35 days since I submitted my appeal (25th August) and no response, except a letter dated 1st Sept (arrived 10th) inviting me to provide additional information within 21 days.

My automated appeal confirmation tells me to give them a ring if they don't respond in 35 days. I don't think I'll bother, but does a lack of response from them within the deadline give them a weaker case at POPLA if they do reject my appeal?

Re the Council's 'income' (they call it a windfall) from UKPC's management of the site, I have been informed that the Council received £2,234.41 during the first 12 months - should be 10% of the net profit that went to UKPC, I wonder what their gross figures are...

[mystery1]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

does a lack of response from them within the deadline give them a weaker case at POPLA if they do reject my appeal?

No, it's a code of practice issue but the BPA are "not regulators" aka couldn't give a shit.

M1

[Mosteth]

Re: Council-owned private car parks?

Success! Somewhat surprised, the letter does not spell out the reason for my appeal being upheld, so I wonder whether it is to do with the appeal I submitted or if it could be something to do with the recent disciplining that I understand UKPC have received from the BPA in relation to some ('allegedly') naughty behaviour in Lincoln - not my area but as a result the Council in my case is apparently reviewing its use of UKPC at the car park in which my vehicle received the PCN.

Thanks for all the help and support!