ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim - won

[TwoAngels]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

The reason I don't have receipts is that as I stated in my original post:

" I thought all of it was the same "Retail Park" (as it is described on the link) but it seems that each car park is separate and the shops "associated" to the car park I parked in were the ones I did not spend any money in. I found this out after doing some research and reading that the shop managers can get a PCN cancelled if you spent money in their store. I spent over £600 in DFS so gave them a call and this is when I found out the above situation. Now I don't remember seeing anything saying there was a maximum of 3 hours (but I am sure there is and I missed it) and I didn't see anything to say the car/retail parks were not related as I would have moved the car each time otherwise. "

[mystery1]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

Oh yeah

Wing it. They may not check the retailers list for the site.

M1

[TwoAngels]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

Oh yeah

Wing it. They may not check the retailers list for the site.

M1

I'm going to reply saying that I spent money in X, Y & Z stores but only have receipts for X & Y.

See what happens.

I'll keep you in the loop.

Again I have to say cheers for the help. Has helped to remove the stress of this situation.

[TwoAngels]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

Have received the attached after my last correspondence with Parking Eye. There was also some POPLA FAQ document as well.

Please advise on next steps.

Cheers,

TA

[mystery1]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

Did the also send a 10 digit popla code ?

Do you have any specifics on this one, like the notice(s), signs etc ?

M1

[TwoAngels]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

There is a code but I redacted it.

This is the same one as before so the original PCN is from September. They seem to have gone a very odd way seeing as they had previously sent me a Letter Before County Court Claim.

I don't have anything specific in regards to pictures etc.

[mystery1]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

So this is the one where we replied to the LBCCA and not the other one ? If so that is very sweet.

M1

[TwoAngels]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

Yes this is the exact same case that I posted about in November.

So, next steps.

Should I fill in the POPLA form and argue that I parked (bring (a vehicle that one is driving) to a halt and leave it temporarily, typically in a car park or by the side of the road.) for less than three hours but as the camera is placed at the entrance and exit it can not take into account the time it took to finding a parking space (which adds up to more than the 12 minutes they claim I was over.).

Cheers,

[mystery1]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

Yes this is the exact same case that I posted about in November.

So, next steps.

Should I fill in the POPLA form and argue that I parked (bring (a vehicle that one is driving) to a halt and leave it temporarily, typically in a car park or by the side of the road.) for less than three hours but as the camera is placed at the entrance and exit it can not take into account the time it took to finding a parking space (which adds up to more than the 12 minutes they claim I was over.).

Cheers,

No, because that'd lose. Give me a bit.

M1

[TwoAngels]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

Good to know. I will await your response.

[mystery1]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

OOps, i mixed you up with Anders who has 2 tickets.. Never mind. I'll sort popla out.

M1

[mystery1]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

Check it's a valid code for me please.

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla-code-checker/

M1

[TwoAngels]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

Code summary
Issuing operator: ParkingEye Ltd (Code: 606)
Date code generated: Wed Feb 18 2015
Code sequence number: 023

Deadline information
Your appeal deadline is Wed Mar 18 2015
You have 23 day(s) remaining for your appeal to reach POPLA

Would you like any more info? Should I post the code up or message it to you?

[mystery1]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

Code summary
Issuing operator: ParkingEye Ltd (Code: 606)
Date code generated: Wed Feb 18 2015
Code sequence number: 023

Deadline information
Your appeal deadline is Wed Mar 18 2015
You have 23 day(s) remaining for your appeal to reach POPLA

Would you like any more info? Should I post the code up or message it to you?

Perfect. I have another window open with the popla appeal pasted in to it. Just a few minor adjustments to make 1st.

M1

[mystery1]

Re: ParkingEye - Letter Before County Court Claim

I wish to appeal this parking charge on the following grounds.








1. The charges are penalties and not a contractual charge, breach of contract or trespass. They are not a genuine pre estimate of loss either.




2. In order to form a contract the signs need to be clear so that they must be seen by an average person. They were not. There was no breach of contract.




3. Parking Eye do not hold sufficient interest in the land to offer a motorist a contract to park. They have no locus standi.




4. Parking Eye have failed to adhere to the BPA code of practice.




5. Unreliable, unsynchronised and non-compliant ANPR system.








1.The charges are penalties.




The charges are represented as a failure to pay which is disputed. The driver on the day had difficulty in getting in and out of the car park due to traffic. The driver was actually parked for just under 3 hours. According to the BPA code "If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a act of trespass, this charge must be proportionate and commercially justifiable. We would not expect this amount to be more than £100. If the charge is more than this, operators must be able to justify the amount in advance"




£100 is clearly not proportionate to a stay in a car park in which the vehicle was allowed to park for free and didn't even exceed the allowed parking time. Neither is it commercially justified because it would make no sense. The longer a driver stays in the various shops then the more profit is made. £100 is clearly a penalty. The £100 is not a genuine pre estimate of loss as the loss of revenue is actually bogus as the driver did not exceed the time limit for parking and indeed spent several hundred pounds in the retail park. It is a penalty. It is not an attempt to claim liquidated damages which should be a genuine pre estimate of loss. £100 cannot be so as the figures quoted include business costs.




I require ParkingEye to submit a full breakdown of how these losses are calculated in this particular car park and for this particular ‘contravention’. Parking Eye cannot lawfully include their operational day to day running costs (e.g. provision of signs, ANPR and parking enforcement) in any ‘loss’ claimed. Not only are those costs tax deductible, but were no breaches to occur in that car park, the cost of parking 'enforcement ' would still remain the same.




According to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges for breach on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the time the motorist is parked there. As the landowner allows free parking for shoppers and several hundred pounds were spent then there is no loss. The Office of Fair Trading has stated that ''a ‘parking charge’ is not automatically recoverable simply because it is stated to be a parking charge, as it cannot be used to state a loss where none exists.''




In Parking Eye v Beavis it was found that the charges were penalties although specific to that car park they were commercially Justifiable which clearly can't be in the case or trespass. In Beavis there was a £1000 per week payment to the landholder which seems to be absent here.




When one looks at the sign one sees that non blue badge holders are not allowed to park in disabled bays and are charged £100 if they do then it becomes even clearer that £100 is to deter people from misusing disabled bays and that £100 is an arbitrary amount charged for all transgressions and as such is an unenforceable penalty.








2. Unclear and non-compliant signage, forming no contract with drivers.




I require signage evidence in the form of a site map and dated photos of the signs at the time of the parking event. I would contend that the signs (wording, position and clarity) fail to properly inform the driver of the terms and any consequences for breach, as in the case of Excel Parking Services Ltd v Martin Cutts, 2011. As such, the signs were not so prominent that they 'must' have been seen by the driver - who would never have agreed to pay £100 in a carpark where they could have paid £1 had they seen the signs which they did not. It was not a genuine attempt to contract for unlimited parking in return for £100.




As the PCN had no VAT content to it, it cannot be for a service. It must therefore be a penalty.








3.. Contract with landowner - no locus standi








Parking eye do not own nor have any interest or assignment of title of the land in question. As such, I do not believe that Parking eye has the necessary legal capacity to enter into a contract with a driver of a vehicle parking in the car park, or indeed to allege a breach of contract. Accordingly, I require sight of a full copy of the actual contemporaneous, signed and dated site agreement/contract with the landowner (and not just a signed slip of paper saying that it exists). Some parking companies have provided “witness statements” instead of the relevant contract. There is no proof whatsoever that the alleged signatory has ever seen the relevant contract, or, indeed is even an employee of the landowner. Nor would a witness statement show whether there is a payment made from either party within the agreement/contract which would affect any 'loss' calculations. Nor would it show whether the contract includes the necessary authority, required by the BPA CoP, to specifically allow Parking eye to pursue these charges in their own name as creditor in the Courts, and to grant them the standing/assignment of title to make contracts with drivers.




In POPLA case reference 1771073004, POPLA ruled that a witness statement was 'not valid evidence'. This witness statement concerned evidence which could have been produced but was not. So if the operator produces a witness statement mentioning the contract, but does not produce the actual un-redacted contract document, then POPLA should be consistent and rule any such statement invalid.




So I require the unredacted contract for all these stated reasons as I contend the Operator's authority is limited to that of a mere parking agent. I believe it is merely a standard business agreement between Parking eye and their client, which is true of any such business model. This cannot impact upon, nor create a contract with, any driver, as was found in case no. 3JD00517 ParkingEye v Clarke 19th December 2013 (Transcript linked): http://nebula.wsimg.com/71a4eb1b5de2...essKeyId=4CB8F 2392A09CF228A46&disposition=0&alloworigin=1








I refer the Adjudicator to the recent Appeal Court decision in the case of Vehicle Control Services (VCS) v HMRC ( EWCA Civ 186 [2013]): The principal issue in this case was to determine the actual nature of Private Parking Charges.




It was stated that, "If those charges are consideration for a supply of goods or services, they will be subject to VAT. If, on the other hand, they are damages they will not be."








The ruling of the Court stated, "I would hold, therefore, that the monies that VCS collected from motorists by enforcement of parking charges were not consideration moving from the landowner in return for the supply of parking services."








In other words, they are not, as the Operator asserts, a contractual term. If they were a contractual term, the Operator would have to provide a VAT invoice, to provide a means of payment at the point of supply, and to account to HMRC for the VAT element of the charge. The Appellant asserts that these requirements have not been met. It must therefore be concluded that the Operator's charges are in fact damages, or penalties, for which the Operator must demonstrate his actual, or pre-estimated losses, as set out above.












4. Failure to adhere to the BPA code of practice.




The signs do not meet the minimum requirements in part 18. They were not clear and intelligible as required.




The BPA Code of Practice states under appendix B, entrance signage:








“The sign must be readable from far enough away so that drivers can take in all the essential text without needing to look more than 10 degrees away from the road ahead.”








For a contract to be formed, one of the many considerations is that there must be adequate signage on entering the car park and throughout the car park. I contend that there is not. Upon returning to the car park after receiving this unjustified 'charge notice' to check the alleged terms at a later date, I had to get out of my car to even read the larger font on the signs, and the smaller font was only readable when standing next to a sign. They were also very brightly coloured but too busy, confusing and unclear. Everything except the 'welcome' heading is too unreadable to be compliant (photo attached).








Furthermore Parking Eye state that:








"The signs within the car park comply with the recommendations in the Code of Practice"








When with reference to the BCP Code of Practice, it actually states:








"There must be enough colour contrast between the text and its background, each of which should be a single solid colour. The best way to achieve this is to have black text on a white background, or white text on a black background. Combinations such as blue on yellow are not easy to read and may cause problems for drivers with impaired colour vision"












The BPA code of practice dictates that all appeals should be answered within 35 days or a holding letter should be issued. No such letter was received and it took 8 months from appeal to rejection and popla code.










Parking eye also took a lot longer than 35 days to respond to the initial appeal and did not provide any updates or request any information from the appellant.








5. ANPR ACCURACY
















This Operator is obliged to ensure their ANPR equipment is maintained as described in paragraph 21.3 of the British Parking Association's Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice. I require the Operator to present records as to the dates and times of when the cameras at this car park were checked, adjusted,calibrated, synchronised with the timer which stamps the photos and generally maintained to ensure the accuracy of the dates and times of any ANPR images.This is important because the entirety of the charge is founded on two images purporting to show my vehicle entering and exiting at specific times. It is vital that this Operator must produce evidence in response to these points and explain to POPLA how their system differs (if at all) from the flawed ANPR system which was wholly responsible for the court loss by the Operator inParkingEye v Fox-Jones on 8 Nov 2013. That case was dismissed when the judge said the evidence form the Operator was 'fundamentally flawed' as the synchronisation of the camera pictures with the timer had been called into question and the operator could not rebut the point.
















So, in addition to showing their maintenance records, I require the Operator in this case to show evidence to rebut this point: I suggest that in the case of my vehicle being in this car park, a local camera took the image but a remote server added the time stamp. As the two are disconnected by the internet and do not have a common "time synchronisation system", there is no proof that the time stamp added is actually the exact time of the image. The operator appears to use WIFI which introduces a delay through buffering, so "live" is not really "live". Hence without a synchronised time stamp there is no evidence that the image is ever time stamped with an accurate time. Therefore I contend that this ANPR "evidence" from this Operator in this car park is just as unreliable as the ParkingEye system and I put this Operator to strict proof to the contrary.






M1