another civil enforcement ltd pcn! - WON

[Matmobile]

Hi everyone, new to this site but glad I found it! So much useful info! I got a PCN ( strangely referred to as both a parking charge notice and an enforcement notice in the same document ). My angle however is slightly different as I run a small removal/delivery company, I parked in the car park of some flats in Kings Langley, obviously to get access to the main doors as I had to deliver my clients funiture/possesions. I received a pcn from CEL. I appealed, predictably it failed so am currently awaiting the result of my POPLA appeal. (due around the 22nd). CEL's decision to reject my appeal was that I should have applied for some sort of day permission. I knew nothing of this, nor did my client who doesn't drive and is new to the apartment so was in the dark so to speak as to the ins and outs of car park protocol. I park in hundreds of private and public car parks every year and surely can't be expected to examine the individual criteria of each, indeed have not had a ticket yet until this incident. I guess I am appealing to any delivery companies/drivers/supermarket delivery vans etc to share any wisdom here....... Is there any way we could join forces to a) support each other b) fight these nasty companies when they try to take our hard earned money when we are working for local residents?

Regards Matt

[mystery1]

Re: another civil enforcement ltd pcn!

Does your popla appeal include genuine pre estimate of loss as a point of appeal ?

M1

[Matmobile]

Re: another civil enforcement ltd pcn!

[QUOTE=mystery1;477727]Does your popla appeal include genuine pre estimate of loss as a point of appeal ?

Hi thanks for your interest, my appeal (sent before I came across this site) consisted of 2 key points.
First, that in the interests of health/safety/practicality whilst delivering household goods I need to park as near to the entrance as possible, ( I was in the 'loading bay').
Second, that my client informed me that provisions for parking were in place. I had no reason to question that information further. Indeed, as a delivery driver are we expected to investigate the legislation of every car park? especially when they all operate independently and have different regulations, I would be forever on the phone leaving messages for these cowboys! Surely they don't fine every tesco/pizzahut/argos van that has to deliver to the block!
I understand now that civil enforcement ltd have no legal right to pursue a 'fine' or 'penalty' but only to pursue a loss of 'income' i.e the £1 coin that it would have cost to park had they had a ticket machine installed. The £100 pcn is a meaningless sum that in no way reflects loss of income on their part but appears more of a penal figure, or, indeed, 'fine' which they are not entitled to pursue.
(Here's hoping POPLA see sense and uphold the appeal!)
Regards

Matt

[mystery1]

Re: another civil enforcement ltd pcn!

[QUOTE=Matmobile;477762]

Does your popla appeal include genuine pre estimate of loss as a point of appeal ?

Hi thanks for your interest, my appeal (sent before I came across this site) consisted of 2 key points.
First, that in the interests of health/safety/practicality whilst delivering household goods I need to park as near to the entrance as possible, ( I was in the 'loading bay').
Second, that my client informed me that provisions for parking were in place. I had no reason to question that information further. Indeed, as a delivery driver are we expected to investigate the legislation of every car park? especially when they all operate independently and have different regulations, I would be forever on the phone leaving messages for these cowboys! Surely they don't fine every tesco/pizzahut/argos van that has to deliver to the block!
I understand now that civil enforcement ltd have no legal right to pursue a 'fine' or 'penalty' but only to pursue a loss of 'income' i.e the £1 coin that it would have cost to park had they had a ticket machine installed. The £100 pcn is a meaningless sum that in no way reflects loss of income on their part but appears more of a penal figure, or, indeed, 'fine' which they are not entitled to pursue.
(Here's hoping POPLA see sense and uphold the appeal!)
Regards

Matt

You need to act because with that, you're going to lose.

https://www.popla.org.uk/contactus.htm

Edit http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...-Appeal-Letter to suit and try and amend your popla appeal and send it via email as a matter of urgency.

M1

[Matmobile]

Re: another civil enforcement ltd pcn!

Thanks for that great link. I have submitted an edited version as advised, will keep you informed.
Matt

[Matmobile]

Re: another civil enforcement ltd pcn!

Dear Everyone, my appeal hearing was held on the 22nd, and I only heard today that my appeal has been allowed! The point that did the trick would appear to be thus:

The Appellant raises several grounds of appeal but it is only necessary for the purposes of this appeal to deal with one. This is the submission that the
parking charge does not reflect a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

I want to pass my sincere thanks to this website and everyone that takes the time and trouble to help people out with their experience and insight. Much respect. I am in the process of complaining to the BPA about civil enforcements use of the scales of justice logo as being in breach of clause 14.2 of their own guidelines. Will update as and when. Cheers!

[Kati]

Re: another civil enforcement ltd pcn!

aww well done!!