CC Claim Form for PCN

[roogoose]

Hi all
I have been reading through all the threads on these and was hoping you would be able to offer some advice.
Situation:
Overstay of 22 minutes at private car park managed by athens security limited.
PCN attached to windscreen for £100, £60 if paid within 14 days- stupidly thrown away a few weeks after as advised by friends thinking nothing would come of it. (and also thought was unreasonable amount).

Letters ignored, which I know now through reading through everything that I should not have done, but it's in the past and cannot be changed.
I now have a county court claim form demanding a total of £228.45
£153.45 for the fine (no explanation or warning of added £50 and the £3.45 is interest).
£25 court fee
£50 legal representative's cost.
I have acknowledged the claim and am preparing my defence.
All documentation is legit as far as I can tell, signs are easily visible in car park so cannot use this as argument.

I have been using defence arguments seen in various threads on here and peipoo including I did not enter a contract and fine is disproportionate to losses and damage. (which i know is less useful since Beavis case, but still thought it was worth a try) Have tried to compare it to local council fines to suggest excessive even as deterrent.

HOWEVER whilst doing all this I have been looking back through the documentation and realised on my notice to keeper letter that they have stated the "Period of parking" as 00.00 to 16.22.
Now the period of overstay was 16:00 until 16:22. I still have the pay and display ticket that says I entered the car park at 15:00 and paid until 16:00.
My question is, is this mistake on the NTK enough to form a defence? As I said I don't have the original PCN and i presume this has the right time on it.

And if it is enough, then would I be stupid using all the other "cost is excessive" points, as then I am admitting that I should have to pay a fine at all?

Any and all advice much appreciated.
I look forward to hearing from you.

[mystery1]

Re: CC Claim Form for PCN

The notice to keeper and any mistakes are only of any use to the keeper and meaningless to the driver.

Post up the claim, suitably sanitised.

M1

[roogoose]

Re: CC Claim Form for PCN

Hi thanks for the reply, here is the claim form:

[mystery1]

Re: CC Claim Form for PCN

Well those particulars are garbage. Have you written to them asking them to replead ? Or for further information ?

M1

[roogoose]

Re: CC Claim Form for PCN

Well those particulars are garbage. Have you written to them asking them to replead ? Or for further information ?

M1

Hi M1,
No I haven't written to them for a replead, I wasn't aware that I could do that. Guessing it's too late now as my defence has to be in by the 31st.

I agree that the particulars are very vague and I should ask the court to strike it out based on this. I understand I write this in my defence.
Would you advise that I also put other points of defence in as well? Ie. mistake on notice to keeper, signage not compliant with CoP etc? Or am i then admitting that I do know what the claim is about? I get the feeling I need to be cautious with the information I share, or should I just go all out?

Thanks again so much for your help!

[roogoose]

Re: CC Claim Form for PCN

Also I am confused about whether to defend the whole claim of offer a settlement.
I have read some opinions saying that I should defend the whole claim and admit to nothing, and I have read others saying the court likes to see you have made an effort to settle.

Does anybody have any ideas?
Thanks

[mystery1]

Re: CC Claim Form for PCN

I wasn't aware that I could do that. Guessing it's too late now as my defence has to be in by the 31st.

It isn't too late but you'd really need an extension for the time to file your defence which they can agree to.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...es/part15#15.5

Agreement extending the period for filing a defence
15.5
(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.
(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.

I agree that the particulars are very vague and I should ask the court to strike it out based on this. I understand I write this in my defence.

Ideally an application but at £255 it is only worth it if you qualify for remission of fees. https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees Failing this it's a bit of a risk and certainly doesn't meet the over riding objective with regards to cost v amount in dispute.

Would you advise that I also put other points of defence in as well? Ie. mistake on notice to keeper, signage not compliant with CoP etc? Or am i then admitting that I do know what the claim is about?

The content of a defence is covered https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...es/part16#16.5

Content of defence
16.5
(1) In his defence, the defendant must state –
(a) which of the allegations in the particulars of claim he denies;
(b) which allegations he is unable to admit or deny, but which he requires the claimant to prove; and
(c) which allegations he admits.
(2) Where the defendant denies an allegation –
(a) he must state his reasons for doing so; and
(b) if he intends to put forward a different version of events from that given by the claimant, he must state his own version.
(3) A defendant who –
(a) fails to deal with an allegation; but
(b) has set out in his defence the nature of his case in relation to the issue to which that allegation is relevant,
shall be taken to require that allegation to be proved.
(4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation.
(5) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), a defendant who fails to deal with an allegation shall be taken to admit that allegation.
(6) If the defendant disputes the claimant’s statement of value under rule 16.3 he must –
(a) state why he disputes it; and
(b) if he is able, give his own statement of the value of the claim.
(7) If the defendant is defending in a representative capacity, he must state what that capacity is.
(8) If the defendant has not filed an acknowledgment of service under Part 10, the defendant must give an address for service.


And

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...6/pd_part16#II




The defence
General
10.1 Rule 16.5 deals with the contents of the defence.
10.2 A defendant should deal with every allegation in accordance with rule 16.5(1) and (2).
10.3 Rule 16.5(3), (4) and (5) sets out the consequences of not dealing with an allegation.
10.4 Where the defendant is an individual, and the claim form does not contain an address at which he resides or carries on business, or contains an incorrect address, the defendant must provide such an address in the defence.
10.5 Where the defendant’s address for service is not where he resides or carries on business, he must still provide the address required by paragraph 10.4.
10.6 Any address which is provided for the purpose of these provisions must include a postcode, unless the court orders otherwise. Postcode information may be obtained from www.royalmail.com or the Royal Mail Address Management Guide.
10.7 Where a defendant to a claim or counterclaim is an individual, he must provide his date of birth (if known) in the acknowledgment of service, admission, defence, defence and counterclaim, reply or other response.




You would be correct that it's weird to say the particulars of claim are shite but then enter a full on parking defence. Most other fora will say file a parking defence where as i will say respond to the claim form and the specific particulars. To do so when these are shite it is always better to have sought clarification & information as well as have the back up parking arguments in case the judge allows such nonsense or an amendment ad hoc.





Defend the whole claim in whatever manner you feel, but again i always say mediate even if your offer is drop it with no costs. In one of the Pranksters blog a judge refused some costs as the defendant had refused mediation.

M1

[roogoose]

Re: CC Claim Form for PCN

Thanks for your advice M1

This is the sign at the car park, can anyone help me spot some problems with the wording,lettering, anything?
It is right next to the pay and display machine so I feel like it would be difficult to argue the font isn't big enough.
I was wondering if I could argue it doesn't say anything about overstaying, but would this be covered in "displaying a valid ticket" ?

Thanks!

[mystery1]

Re: CC Claim Form for PCN

1. If the income from parking is not for AS parking and for the trust then how can AS parking sue if it's not their money ? (the asterisk appears to not be listed as anything)

2. The claim form and the sign have different names on them. Thee sign says AS parking management and enforcement services where as the claim is in the name of Athens security services limited t/a AS parking. (note no management and enforcement limited).

3. The £100 is not in your face as it was in Beavis.

4. The valid ticket term is superfluous given you can pay by phone for which no ticket will be issued. In a contract with competing terms, the terms best suited to a consumer are used.

M1