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Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

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  • #31
    Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

    Joanna, feel free to mention it as MIL will need to counter that but I am just saying as reference, I do not believe that arguing the debt is champertous on the basis of the above cases. Rightly, the purchasing of a right to litigate on its own is champertous however if there is a contract and a breach of contract occurs resulting in a debt, this cannot be considered champertous. Equally, setting up a company as a special purpose vehicle (SPV) to pursue someone for a debt does not amount champerty (JEB Recoveries LLP v Binstock 2015). County Court decisions are not binding and will take decisions on the evidence and authorities before them.

    Exemption rules to champerty and maintenance apply for example, where there is a right of action for property (debt is considered property) then the assignment is not champertous. Because the assignment taking place is not just the right to litigate but also the right to receive the debt, that is where the exemption applies. Here;s a quote from Camdex v Bank of Zambia as a point:

    From these authorities which are binding upon this court and subsequent to which the provisions of the Act of 1873 have been re-enacted in the Act of 1925, it is clearly established that debts are assignable in law as well as in equity and the fact that the assignee will have to sue for the debt raises no question of maintenance or other infringement of any principle of public policy ... Similarly, the owner of a debt is entitled to assign that debt to another who may be in a whole range of relationships to him from that of mere trustee through to one who owes no contractual or other obligation to him. The only qualification is that the statutory formalities must have been complied with and the assignment must be an absolute one. There has to be a debt, otherwise there is nothing to assign. However, the fact that the debt may have to be sued for, or that it is expressly contemplated that the debt will have to be sued for, does not alter the position. Suing for an assigned debt raises no question of maintenance.
    So its quite clear that an assignment must be absolute i.e. that all benefits are transferred and not just some of them. Obviously if no assignment took place then they would have no right to bring a claim in their own name and thereby an argument exists for malicious prosecution as they had no reasonable grounds to bring a claim in the first place.

    But feel free to argue the champerty and maintenance claim if you like. The judge will either accept it or will not. I think your other grounds are good enough to set the claim aside anyway and ensure that the claim will probably be dropped.
    If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
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    LEGAL DISCLAIMER
    Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

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    • #32
      Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

      Originally posted by R0b View Post
      Joanna, feel free to mention it as MIL will need to counter that but I am just saying as reference, I do not believe that arguing the debt is champertous on the basis of the above cases. Rightly, the purchasing of a right to litigate on its own is champertous however if there is a contract and a breach of contract occurs resulting in a debt, this cannot be considered champertous. Equally, setting up a company as a special purpose vehicle (SPV) to pursue someone for a debt does not amount champerty (JEB Recoveries LLP v Binstock 2015). County Court decisions are not binding and will take decisions on the evidence and authorities before them.

      Exemption rules to champerty and maintenance apply for example, where there is a right of action for property (debt is considered property) then the assignment is not champertous. Because the assignment taking place is not just the right to litigate but also the right to receive the debt, that is where the exemption applies. Here;s a quote from Camdex v Bank of Zambia as a point:



      So its quite clear that an assignment must be absolute i.e. that all benefits are transferred and not just some of them. Obviously if no assignment took place then they would have no right to bring a claim in their own name and thereby an argument exists for malicious prosecution as they had no reasonable grounds to bring a claim in the first place.

      But feel free to argue the champerty and maintenance claim if you like. The judge will either accept it or will not. I think your other grounds are good enough to set the claim aside anyway and ensure that the claim will probably be dropped.


      Hi Rob

      Again, thank you so much. I still don't quite grasp all of this and I think I should try and mention something of the unscrupulous nature of MIL's operations and desire to litigate without pursuing resolution effectively first. As I don't a full grasp of the legalities it's also probably best that I keep it simple!
      It's so good to hear you think I have some grounds for setting aside as I understand it is hard to get these judgements overturned. I'll remain hopeful.

      My last question for now is there anything I should be doing to prepare for the hearing?
      Will I hear from MIL ahead of the hearing?

      With kind regards and HUGE thanks

      J

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

        If you can't understand the gist of maintenance and champerty, then I suggest you do not argue it at all. It will confuse you and the judge and potentially undermine your claim to set aside.

        I wouldn't be worrying too much about it at the moment as you still haven't got a date for the hearing. Until then, there is plenty of time to draw up a bullet point list on how to state your case.

        As for MIL, they will probably be aware by now that you have submitted an application for set aside. You don't have to do anything right now but I can't see there being any harm in writing to them and requesting certain documents such as the Deed of Assignment and/or evidence of the parking company's right to bring a claim against you. On that point, was there signage up at the time where you got your parking ticket? if not, it could be treated as trespass rather than a breach of contract and only a landowner could bring a claim for trespass (or that you were given permission to do so anyway) either way they don't have grounds to bring a claim.

        If you do write and MIL don't respond you could raise that in court as to their conduct but also their lack of evidence on their part.
        If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        LEGAL DISCLAIMER
        Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

          Yes totally agreed, I could well get myself in a twist.

          Ok I will write to them asking to see all paperwork etc.

          Yes parking signs were up at the time I'm supposed to have parked there, so I can't argue that. I'm worried that 2 years after the fact. I don't want to go into too much specific detail here - presumably anyone can read these messages, including my opposition!?

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

            One sign that you have to look at is the date of purported assignment and the commencement of action. As i recall, mostly, they commence action right away and make no other attempt to collect the "debt" which is a large indicator, for me, that all they have is a right to sue which is distinctly different to a loan which has a clear underlying contract (debt).

            There isn't much i can add if you've read the other MIL case reports, to be honest. R0b may also be technically correct, but it wouldn't be the first time courts differ in practice to a sound theory particularly when it's not argued as such in front of them. MIL don't turn up sometimes and usually only use local people with a case file and little knowledge of the case if they do. It is also difficult for MIL to know too much about the actual parking event/site since it has nothing to do with them.

            M1

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

              Originally posted by mystery1 View Post
              One sign that you have to look at is the date of purported assignment and the commencement of action. As i recall, mostly, they commence action right away and make no other attempt to collect the "debt" which is a large indicator, for me, that all they have is a right to sue which is distinctly different to a loan which has a clear underlying contract (debt).

              There isn't much i can add if you've read the other MIL case reports, to be honest. R0b may also be technically correct, but it wouldn't be the first time courts differ in practice to a sound theory particularly when it's not argued as such in front of them. MIL don't turn up sometimes and usually only use local people with a case file and little knowledge of the case if they do. It is also difficult for MIL to know too much about the actual parking event/site since it has nothing to do with them.

              M1



              Hi Thanks for this - I should have checked these dates - OK on the particulars sent to me by the handling centre at Northampton, the dates given by MIL are as follows:

              1. The Claimant purchased the debt on 8/5/2015
              2. Assignment notice sent 9/5/2015
              3. The Charge is cpms ref C105263 offence; no parking - date 16/8/2014 with details of my car...
              4. in accordance with Schedule 4, the protection of freedoms act 2012, notice outlining liability was sent by post to the defendant. (no date against this)
              5. The claimant wrote to the defendant on 11/5/2015 informing of intention to issue a summons
              6. No resolution achieved - no other dates are mentioned anywhere
              7. The claimant claims Debt amount £100 and admin and collection fee £50

              So within 4 days they'd purchased the 'debt' (I never knew about!) sent assignment notice and informed me of intention to issue a summons

              I don't know when the summons was sent and have zero paperwork or other info, so I don't know how much time lapsed between sending he notice of intention to issue a summons and the actual summons?


              Any thoughts most welcome!

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

                The date will be on the claim form, top right.

                M1

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

                  Originally posted by mystery1 View Post
                  The date will be on the claim form, top right.

                  M1
                  I don't have any paperwork other than the info sent to me by Northampton when I discovered the CCJ has been placed against me in Jan.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

                    Originally posted by joanna4685 View Post
                    I don't have any paperwork other than the info sent to me by Northampton when I discovered the CCJ has been placed against me in Jan.
                    Oh yeah, phone them and they should tell you.

                    Don't forget when getting your set aside, which should be a formality based on no paperwork, to point to all the cases they discontinued if the judge is at all worried you can't win. http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...e-casesby.html

                    M1

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

                      Originally posted by mystery1 View Post
                      Oh yeah, phone them and they should tell you.

                      Don't forget when getting your set aside, which should be a formality based on no paperwork, to point to all the cases they discontinued if the judge is at all worried you can't win. http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...e-casesby.html



                      M1

                      Thank you so much for this - should I call Northampton or MIL? And, I should request copies of all paperwork from MIL.

                      J

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

                        Northampton. Ask them for a copy of the claim form. Mil won't have anything and won't help, although you should ask them if they'll agree to the set aside as it's easier to obtain if uncontested.

                        M1

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

                          Originally posted by mystery1 View Post
                          Northampton. Ask them for a copy of the claim form. Mil won't have anything and won't help, although you should ask them if they'll agree to the set aside as it's easier to obtain if uncontested.

                          M1

                          Hi There

                          I've spoken with Northampton - they say they can't send me the original claim form but have given me some dates info over the phone and have also emailed a copy of the letter which shows the judgement was made by default.

                          so here's what I have:

                          1. 8/5/15 claimant purchased the debt
                          2. 9/5/15 Assignment notice sent
                          3. 16/8/14 (date of alleged offences)
                          4. 11/5/15 Claimant wrote to defendant informing of intention to issue a summons
                          5. 16/12/15 Claim was issued against me
                          6. 7/1/16 Judgement made by default

                          Any thoughts?

                          Thanks

                          J

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

                            They waited unusually long to issue in your case. So ignore that.

                            Did they tell you where it was sent ?

                            M1

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

                              Originally posted by mystery1 View Post
                              They waited unusually long to issue in your case. So ignore that.

                              Did they tell you where it was sent ?

                              M1

                              I have no idea where it was sent, that's what I need to find out - guessing I need to try and get this information from MIL but no doubt they will choose to ignore me.

                              I will formally request the info from them so at least I have it on record. Not sure the N'hampton will tell me - they say they don't have the claim form just the judgement letter which they've sent me.

                              Frustrating!

                              J

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Urgent Advice needed - Application to set aside a CCJ

                                Originally posted by mystery1 View Post
                                They waited unusually long to issue in your case. So ignore that.

                                Did they tell you where it was sent ?

                                M1

                                Hi There

                                I now have a date for my hearing in Manchester, on 23rd August, I'm terrified, to say the least!

                                I have written to MIL requesting copies of all documentation, including info on where they sent the intention to summons me to.

                                I'm concerned that I have zero information from them, other than what the court has given me - largely dates that they say they sent communications. My main concern in my main defence as in my witness statement is (other than no debt existed) that I never received anything, moved house and don't believe they made any effort to find me. At the moment, I don't know where they claim to have sent anything to so I am worried I'll get to court and they could pull anything out of the bag! I have written to MIL requesting all copies but we only have a week to go and I'm sure they won't bother replying in time. Is there any way I can find out the address they sent things to - I'm guessing they won't help if I call them!! Worried I'll get to court and not know what they are going to say, it all feels very one sided.

                                Can anyone please help? Anyone want to come to court with me! argh!


                                THANKS

                                Joanna

                                Comment

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