Court claim for a parking ticket

[mystery1]

Re: Court claim for a parking ticket

It would have been 14 days prior. Thankfully the case, as pleaded, needs nothing from you really but it's not ideal.

Can you post gsl1 (signs,c ontract etc)

M1

[Thewise1]

Re: Court claim for a parking ticket

I have uploaded the GSL1 document. It is worth noting that only photographic evidence for only two of the instances have been provided where, as requested by the defender's statement, no evidence for the third fine has been provided.

At this point I should mention that the land owner has a system whereby permits are bought on a daily basis online, as such if the claimant is pursuing a penalty charge based on a breach of contract, would there be a contract in the first place if no permit was bought for the day? Also the system does not allow you to go so far back to check if a permit was bought, as some of the fines date back two years I cannot remember. Can a point be raised about requesting the land owner for access to this crucial information at the hearing?

Thanks,
Thewise1

[ostell]

Re: Court claim for a parking ticket

All the signs state that parking is for authorised permit holders only. No permit = no authority to park so how can there be a contract to park?

[mystery1]

Re: Court claim for a parking ticket

http://www.parking-prankster.com/case-law.html

Read numbers 35 & 36. Print 3 of each and take with you just in case.

You may need to read a few times until it becomes clear.

M1

[Thewise1]

Re: Court claim for a parking ticket

@mystery1

If I said something along these lines would it be okay?

Many thanks,
Thewise1

[mystery1]

Re: Court claim for a parking ticket

That's your back up if the claim becomes a parking case. Remember their particulars of claim are garbage and unless they get a favourable judge they are in trouble. If it does become about the parking, you are pretty close with what you have. Thankfully you should be last to speak so will already know which direction you are headed in.

3 copies of all cases etc and don't forget costs if you win and ask for permission to appeal if you lose (it's easier to do so in case you need it than to not do so then decide you want to)

M1

[Thewise1]

Re: Court claim for a parking ticket

So first to do whilst I am in there is to wait for the claimant to give their oral statement and hope that the judge dismiss it on the basis of their particulars of claim. Also if you don't mind me asking is it not already a parking case, the Witness statement of the claimant states that those are parking charges levied against me?

Secondly, if I do win the case, what kind of costs can I ask for?

Regards,
Thewise1

[mystery1]

Re: Court claim for a parking ticket

They cannot, or more accurately should not be allowed to, make their pleaded case via witness statement. The reason is that they can send this at the last minute preventing you knowing what the case against you is. The particulars of claim should enable anyone to know the basic case against you. Nobody should have to guess. Whilst they may say you should know from a series of numbers, what about a judge ? Wouldn't have a clue. That is not allowed.


Days earnings up to £95, travel, printing etc. £19 per hour for preparation if the judge accepts that the claimants conduct was unreasonable as per cpr 27.14 (2) (g)

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...s/part27#27.14

Also see practice direction 27


https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr.../pd_part27#7.1

M1

[Thewise1]

Re: Court claim for a parking ticket

Just to let you know what actually happened at the hearing.

I was approached by a gentleman representing the claimant in the public waiting room and tried to have a "discussion" regarding the case, asking questions such whether I can confirm that I had received the notice and what exactly my defence is going into the court room. I disclosed nothing to him and in doing so he said I will not be allowed to present any kind of evidence since I did not submit it beforehand. I rightfully pointed out to the gentleman and said to him that the court/judge can make such a decision at their discretion.

Upon entering the hearing room, the judge started grilling me at the fact I had not submitted any further documents after the initial questionnaires and he said I will be exercising my right in refusing to take further submissions from you. At this stage, the claimant's side (lawyer and a witness) made their statement. Their statement on the basis of a parking charge based on a breach of contract and reference the set of notices (signs) as the entry to such a contract.

Upon my chance to speak, I immediately started with my first point of challenge in saying the claimed debt exceeds the maximum limit of £100 (the asking charge is £120). At this point the judge stopped me and said I was not challenging the claimant but actually submitting further defence (see earlier point about judge refusing further submissions). The claimant side spoke again and said that the court's time was being wasted and the case should be closed based on submitted documents etc.

When I was allowed to speak again, I went through all the points of my oral statement (see earlier post). Basically, I said stuff such as the parking charge exceeding the maximum limit, the additional costs should not be applicable and that were was no contractual relationship or licence and as such parking charge cannot be applied. I referenced the mentioned cases (Sean masterson case, christopher bull and Beavis), regarding the first two mentioned cases the judge said the judgement was made by district judges and as such the law is not binding on to him (him being a district judge as well).

In his judgement, the judge said the case was clear and that he was satisfied that the charge was not excessive and signs were clear in stating the parking was for permit holders only, as such I was able to be fined as a parking charge. He did agree that the particulars of claim were vague but said I had not raised that point prior to the hearing (meaning 14 days before). The claimant also requested additional costs (day's payment). I requested the permission to appeal on the basis that for the appeal I will submitting further evidence and supporting documents before the actual hearing. The judge said "The case has no reasonable chance to succeed and permission to appeal is denied, case closed."

I don't mind paying the money etc but I felt a bit cheated on some of my points raised. I felt I was put under pressure at the hearing. I also thought my final defence, as it is in the earlier post, should have carried more weight. Also the fact my permission to appeal being rejected did not help. What can I do at this stage? Is it worth going further at this stage or shall I just leave it as bad luck and pay the money?

[mystery1]

Re: Court claim for a parking ticket

Upon entering the hearing room, the judge started grilling me at the fact I had not submitted any further documents after the initial questionnaires and he said I will be exercising my right in refusing to take further submissions from you. At this stage, the claimant's side (lawyer and a witness) made their statement. Their statement on the basis of a parking charge based on a breach of contract and reference the set of notices (signs) as the entry to such a contract.

Was anything said about the particulars of claim and the evidence being unconnected to them ?

signs were clear in stating the parking was for permit holders only, as such I was able to be fined as a parking charge. He did agree that the particulars of claim were vague but said I had not raised that point prior to the hearing (meaning 14 days before).

Really ? It was in the defence or does this eejit think that because he ignored their statement of case that yours should be ignored too ? FFS!

Also how can the sign ever be a contract ? Lunacy. (See the attachment for a similarly perverse small claims decision that was overturned on appeal. Nothing to do with me and i don't have the appeal but know it was won) Transcript of hearing on 22.03.2016 (Judgment).pdf.pdf

regarding the first two mentioned cases the judge said the judgement was made by district judges and as such the law is not binding on to him (him being a district judge as well).

He got that part correct but to say they were wrong ........

Is it worth going further at this stage or shall I just leave it as bad luck and pay the money?

That's your call. You must decide quickly if you want to appeal as the paperwork needs lodged within 21 days. As per the cases you read, i'd say you should win but that doesn't mean appealing is correct if it's stressful etc. I would but it's not my call to make.

M1