CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

[vjward]

Hi!

I received the court papers following a 3 year old PCN (I was in a store for 2 hours as a valid customer for valid reasons, the store said they'd sort it and didn't hear anything else for nearly 3 years, now they're chasing it).

Trouble is, I panicked and submitted my defence within the 14 days (didn't really understand why I'd just acknowledge it, as I wasn't going to know any more in 28 days than 14, as I'd tried without fail to get CEL to respond to me) just saying "I haven't received any particulars about this and don't know what I'm supposed to be defending!". NOW I have received the particulars so can defend it ... but I already submitted that simple defence!

What can I do ???!?!

What a shitty bunch of ****ers. Seriously.

[mystery1]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Write to CEL and ask for permissions to amend your defence as you did it without having the particulars.

Post up sanitised versions of the paperwork you have and the defence you sent.



M1

[vjward]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Thank you. I'll post that up when I have the papers in hand again. Unfortunately, once again proving my legal naivety, I didn't keep a copy of my defence. But in essence it said that I denied any liability, disputed the claim in its entirety, because I didn't have any particulars of the claim so had no idea whether I did or did commit the violation so couldn't possibly admit to it.

In the meantime can you advise me on the following route:

I can write to CEL requesting I amend my defence. (I don't expect a reply, as they reply to nothing... ever), and contact the court to ask to amend my defence. Regardless, I'll send a skeleton defence to both parties, recorded delivery to CEL.

My question is about the skeleton defence. I've been given an example of the skeleton defence from another claim by the Parking Prankster. It talks about not having the particulars. I however do have the particulars and will need to state that, as that's why I'm trying to amend my defence. So I need to remove the bits about not having the particulars, I imagine?

So - in my own defence, do I put what actually happened? (I parked in PC World for 2 hours - therefore overstaying the 90 minutes allowed time period - because I was waiting while they transferred data from a broken laptop so I was therefore a valid customer. They said they'd deal with any PCN I got. I did get a PCN but I can't remember what happened, if I called PC World or just ignored it 3 years ago.) I'm concerned that by putting this down, I am admitting to parking for more than 90 minutes. Was I allowed to park there for more than 90 minutes as a customer of PC World, or is it just an agreement the store have with the car parking company that means that they turn a blind eye to customers parking there for longer? I mean - who owned the car park, PC World or CEL? I am so confused. Was I well within my rights to be parking there for that length of time, so I can use that in my defence? Or do I need to not mention it at all??

PC World haven't yet responded to me other than to say they will send me a copy of the receipt for that day. The store itself couldn't respond to me because it was a legal matter, so I'm waiting for head office to call me back.

I am very confused by all of this!

I appreciate all help in any manner!

- - - Updated - - -

(oh yes, in my defence I noted that I'd emailed and written to CEL asking for the particulars and not received any response, and that the number on their website went directly to an automatic payment line)

[mystery1]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

My question is about the skeleton defence. I've been given an example of the skeleton defence from another claim by the Parking Prankster. It talks about not having the particulars. I however do have the particulars and will need to state that, as that's why I'm trying to amend my defence. So I need to remove the bits about not having the particulars, I imagine?

Without seeing the claim and defence it's hard to say too much, but yes if it doesn't apply it should be removed.

When did you send the defence and who to ?

Amendments to statements of case
17.1
(1) A party may amend his statement of case at any time before it has been served on any other party.
(2) If his statement of case has been served, a party may amend it only –
(a) with the written consent of all the other parties; or
(b) with the permission of the court.

Essentially if you only sent it to the court you can contact them and ask them not to serve it (send it to CEL) and then there would be no issue.

So - in my own defence, do I put what actually happened?

Depends on what they allege, but possibly as part of your defence, yes.


M1

[vjward]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Ah, ok thankyou. I'll call the court and see if has been served. I imagine it has as I submitted it a couple of weeks ago. I'll post the claim etc up ater today.

thanks x

[vjward]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Here is the claim, the more recently received particulars of the claim and the initial letter before action.

I do not have the defence, but I have told you as much as I put. It was very brief. I understand my mistake now

Unfortunately I also re-read the most recent letter from the court, which was acknowledging receipt of my defence and informing me they have served it to the claimant. This was on January 28th, so I guess that ship has sailed.

I will also post up my skeleton draft that I intend to send to the court and CEL.

I appreciate any and all support and advice.

V

[mystery1]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

You are missing something like

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...3&d=1455198619

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...4&d=1455198639

M1

[vjward]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Thank you!

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure if they worked so adding them again x

[vjward]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Hello again

I called the court and the suggested I send them what I'd like to be added to my defence, so that it is on file should the case go to court.

here is the skeleton defence that the Parking Prankster sent to me, amended for my particulars of case. Please advise if this is ok? My concern is still that I am 'admitting' to parking there for more than 90 minutes (because I was in PC World)

Thanks

Victoria

[mystery1]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Chase up pc world by phone. [MENTION=41280]Parking Prankster[/MENTION] is pretty clued up so you could do worse than follow his advice. Getting advice from 2 sources who do things differently leads to confusion.

M1

[vjward]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Thank you.

PP isn't giving me advice, he hasn't looked over my documents, he simply sent me a skeleton draft and told me to change it to reflect my particulars and then get someone else to look at it.

He also linked me to articles on his site to show that others are having the same issues.

I really would be grateful if this is something you are able to assist with?

V

[mystery1]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Of course.

1. Phone Pc World.

2. How long do we have ?

M1

[vjward]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Thank you.

I am trying to get to the right person at PC World head office, and have emailed again to ask for their reply to the email I sent last week.

I don't know how long we have. I'm not sure about the timescale of these things... I submitted my defence and it was acknowledged a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure what happens next. The chap at the court said to send in what I want added to my defence to be put on file as soon as I can, but I'm not sure that there was a time I had to do it by. He said that the claimant has the opportunity to read the defence I submitted (it has been served to them) and choose whether to continue with the claim or not. So I guess I want to be able to send in a proper defence to them ASAP so that they see that I am not just a push over!

I'll keep you informed if I get anything back from PC World. In the meantime any thoughts on the skeleton defence would be appreciated.

(I understand the best outcome would be that PC World somehow sort it and it ends there, but to be honest that doesn't look likely as the store told me they can't get involved now that they don't have a relationship with CEL anymore...)

V

[mystery1]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

Hello again

I called the court and the suggested I send them what I'd like to be added to my defence, so that it is on file should the case go to court.

here is the skeleton defence that the Parking Prankster sent to me, amended for my particulars of case. Please advise if this is ok? My concern is still that I am 'admitting' to parking there for more than 90 minutes (because I was in PC World)

Thanks

Victoria

Ok,

Para 7 - you stated you did get a ticket but was told that pc world would sort it. Is this why you didn't appeal and were denied a chance at popla ? If not remove. If so leave it in.

Paras 12-22 are they in any way correct for your case, as they will differ in every case.

Para 26 I wouldn't agree. I'd state i had no knowledge of the claimants systems. It's unlikely to make the slightest difference but you can't really agree with something you know nothing about.

27-34 I prefer to use the phrase "the claimant is put to strict proof" when neither admitting nor denying. (Note when you deny something it really means "i'll prove that's wrong" rather than putting them to proof knowing they can't if you see what i mean)

50-51 Is this correct ?

52. I'd tag on as was suggested to me by [MENTION=70704]emanresu[/MENTION] of the BMPA the same people that you contacted (we never discussed your case but CEL and Schwartz in general)

"The defendant notes that the Claimant’s Legal representative, Michael Schwartz, has a Practising restriction preventing him from being employed as a solicitor or acting as a sole practitioner without such arrangements being approved by the SRA. As his employment by the claimant has not been so approved, he is unlikely to be authorised to act in this matter."



Other than that, for that style of defence it's fine.

M1

[mystery1]

Re: CEL claim - submitted defence without understanding any of this - what can I do?

I suggest you contact the SRA.

contactcentre@sra.org.uk

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to you to enquire about Mr Michael David Schwartz #118966 who was/is subject to control of practice as per http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/soli...ticle?decision

It is my understanding that "Mr Schwartz shall act as a solicitor only in employment, the arrangements for which have been approved by the SRA."

As he is lodging claim forms with the courts, i would like to enquire if any arrangements are in place to allow him to do so ?

Yours Sincerely


[MENTION=70704]emanresu[/MENTION] of http://www.bmpa.eu/ tells me that they have already let the cat out of the bag that there are no arrangements however i advise that you get your own confirmation in case it comes in handy during this matter.

This has no effect on the court timescales and we must keep to those.


M1