County Court claim received for PCN parking in my own space - 2017

[Vasymolo]

Hi,

I have just received a court claim in the county court business centre in Northampton, represented by DCB Legal Ltd
For a PCN issued by UKPC on 03/10/2017 in Leeds as my vehicle was parked in the resident car park in my space but was not displaying a permit as the managing company was unable to provide one at the time.

After reading the pinned post on the forum at the time, I have :

• On 03/10/2017 - Complained to the management company via Building Manager
  • Building manager said he couldn’t do more than provide a document stating they couldn’t provide a permit at the time. Which has been used to appeal with UKPC and POPLA
• On 05/10/2017 – Appealed through UKPC portal
• On 07/11/2017 – Received UKPC appeal response on the portal which they have rejected and requested for driver information.
• On 07/11/2017 - Provided driver information although has already been provided through UKPC portal initially.
• On 07/12/2017 - Received UKPC appeal response on the portal which they have rejected
• On 19/12/2017 - Appealed through POPLA
  • In the appeal I have provided evidence from the management company that they weren’t able to provide a parking permit at the time as well as my tenancy contract proving that I rent the space I was parked in.
• On 09/01/2018 - Further comments provided to POPLA following UKPC reply
• On 17/01/2018 - Decision from POPLA who rejected the appeal
• On 13/03/2023 – Received a county court claim

UKPC in the POPLA pack mentioned that I was parked outside a parking bay which is not true and there is no evidence of this as they were not issuing a PCN for being park outside a bay, but not displaying a valid permit. Thus the pictures taken and provided do not show the vehicle being parked outside a bay. So I feel they changed their statement to influence the decision of the POPLA agent.
One picture provided could be used to prove if visiting site that where my vehicle was parked, is my parking space and is clearly marked and numbered.



Although the POPLA agent decision seems to be based on the fact that I didn’t display a parking permit when I new I had to as I went to request for one.



The Court Claim states that “The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but I did not.”
I never agreed to pay. So I’m not sure if this can be used against them.

I have attached all the documents I have, with personal information removed, which are : PCN documents pack - Without personal information.pdf

• Court claim form
• POPLA assessment and decision
• POPLA document pack (I believe provided by UKPC)
  • UKPC statement
  • UKPC appeals
  • UKPC pictures
  • UKPC PCN
  • Resident Management Company email
• Tenancy agreement as evidence of use of my parking space
• POPLA appeal form completed at the time

Side note : I no longer own the vehicle as it has been sold but I guess this makes no difference.

Could someone please advise on next steps to take ?
Is it worth going to Court ? I feel this is disproportionate amount requested and as initially stated to POPLA I don’t understand how, once you proved you were in your rights, this can continue.
But could it be won ?
What defence should be used ?
Can it be done via online video call rather than physical representation ?
If the court would decide against me. Could the cost be higher than it is now ?

[MIKE770]

Des-8

[des8]

I would be defending this claim in two parts;
1) my assured shorthold tenancy agreement includes parking space no.79 and does not require the display of a permit issued by a third party.
and anyway 2) the signage forbids unauthorised parking so there cannot be a contract to park. (one cannot contract to do something that is forbidden).

I would acknowledge the claim and note an intention to defend in full.
Then take time drafting my defence before submitting it within the time limits

Your choice

[Vasymolo]

Thanks Des-8 for this.

Would a Lease take precedence over a shorthold tenancy ?

It states " In connection with the use of the Car Park : To comply with, and ensure that the owners and drivers of all private motor vehicles using the car park under its authority, comply with all reasonable regulations made by the Landlord at any time for their running or management ".

Side notes that I forgot about and may be relevant.
- In 2019 so 2 years after this PCN, they issued one for "expiry date not visible on the permit" which was display but slipped behind windscreen hidding the expiry date. I appealed to UKPC provinding a copy of my shorthold tenancy and they've reduced the PCN to £15 which I paid to settle it and avoid any further steps as I've experience in 2017.
- UKPC recently equiped the management company with a self service registration car park machine. Which at least waves out the problems with concierges unable to provide permits at times (unless it fails...). But maybe this could be used against them in a defence ?

Also before I commit to it.
As I'm about to change life in less than 2 months time with a newborn coming up and will be out of the country for some time (i.e not close to the county court and it may cost me more to attend than pay).
Can I request for the hearing to be done via videocall ? In which timeframe is it likely to happen ?

Assuming I've built my defence with mostly words and references that I don't fully understand with it being quite specific langage and English not being my native langage. How does someone feel confident to defend itself if asked for details of cases, questions I cannot answer or starting an argument about "one cannot contract to do something that is forbidden" ?

As much I feel this is grossly unfair and would like to fight it. Based on this, (and other concerns...) does it still a good idea to fight rather than pay ?
Claim issued on 11/01 so I believe I still have time to pay it.

[des8]

In view of the further info regarding the wording in the lease you cannot rely 1) on the tenancy agreement, as it states you need to abide by their arrangements nor 2) about the signage as you were authorised.

THeir claim is that you breached the parking t&cs by not displaying a permit
The non issuance of the permit by the management does give you a reason for the non display but county court is a bit of a lottery and it might not be accepted by a judge

I agree it is an unfair state of affairs, and IMO the management should have ordered UKPC to cancel that ticket. They do have that authority and could still get the case withdrawn.

It will probably be several months before a hearing.
Before then you will need to enter a defence, and later write a witness statement.
To gain an idea of what is required there are examples in the short cut panel on the right of this page. These are more directed for debt cases but will give you an idea of what is needed.
Courts are using video for the hearings sometimes.

However it is for you to decide if it is worth the stress of defending, taking into account your forthcoming temporary change of country of residence.

[Vasymolo]

Thank you for your support on this. I understand you can't advice on personal circumstances and this was just to give context trying to gauge how difficult this can be when you're new to the topic.

Although I did at the time, probably badly and not high enough in the chain, complained to the management company of the residential building.
I would like to try again to complaint firmly this time to the new property manager, with the below statement to ask him to withdraw the PCN with UKPC.
Do you believe this could still work ?

Could you advice on the below please des8 ?

=======================


I am forced to make an official complaint to you because the actions of your agent, UKPC, are upsetting, intimidatory and will drive away genuine resident of the building. You can no doubt guess that I have received a letter purporting to mimic a 'parking ticket' from UKPC.


I lived in ________ from March 2017. Back in October 2017, I purchased my first car and came back home with it.

When I came back that evening about 9pm, I presented myself to the concierge at the time (Name) to request for a permit for my newly purchased car that I parked in my own space (xx).

He informed that he had no access to the system to deliver permits. Today I still don't understand why he didn't have access to the system when this is part of their duty as no UKPC officer nor system was available to residents.

I thus requested for a temporary permit, which he argued he had no access to the drawer in which they were kept.

Once again, I do not understand how a concierge can fulfil his duty without any access !

I asked how am I supposed to deal with this then. To which he answered me to come back the following day after 8am and the daytime concierge would deal with it.

I raised concern as I had to be at work by 8am, using public transport and as such leave home before I could see the daytime concierge and not be able to return before 5:30pm. He reassured me that would be fine as he's know aware of it.

Please note that the overal process is visible on camera footage of that date and time.



Coming back home the following day, after a hard day at work. I procedeed to request the daytime concierge (Name) at the time and been given a parking permit straight away.

Then walking to my vehicle how surprised I was to discover a PCN left on my windscreen ! You can imagine this followed by outrageous feelings. I thus returned to the concierge to ask how this happened as I was told it would be fine.

The concierge could only apologise for what happened but he had no means to cancel this. I would have to raise it with the building manager who finishes at 5pm, so I would have to come back the following day.


Next day as I have to work the same hours as the building manager I couldn't directly talk to him but wrote an email to (Name) at the time.

He replied that he couldn't cancel the PCN himself but with this same email acknowledging the concierge was unable to provide a permit. He then invited me to follow UKPC appeal process and comforted me that should be easy to cancel by providing this email and the permit which has been issued.

Naively I believed him and went on to proceed.



Later UKPC denied my appeal on the basis that it is clearly stated that you have to display a parking permit.

I did not deny that statement but reminded them than "their agent" being the concierge and by no other mean was available to obtain a permit, they failed to deliver a permit at the time.

This went nowhere and I then had to follow the procedure by appealing this through another third party, POPLA.



POPLA denied the appeal, acknowledging that I was parked in my own space but failed to comply with the signage by obtaining a permit.

As such I should have found another mean to park my car, than in my own space which I am paying for, and to pay extra for another parking space !!!

Once again, I tried to comply but the process was faulty.

This is unbelievable and unacceptable.



After this I received intimidatory debt collectors letters for years.

But more importantly I have now received a claim from the county court for an amount of £291 !!!

I am now expected to have to explain my actions before a judge about a private company who I had no dealings with, no contract with, and who are demanding a lot of money from me - in my book that is totally unacceptable.



I am very upset and increasingly angry about this entire episode.

After almost 6 years living in the building and being in the process of becoming a leaseholder.



I rent that space as part of my shorthold tenancy and didn't cause any losses to you nor UKPC.

This car park policying has been put in place to deter driver infringement which I was not by parking in my space.

Moreover with the car park being gated with the shutter gate in place, having discussed this with some other residents.

It seems this is causing more harms to residents than favours. I would as such highly recommend to review this policying 10 years after it's been put in place.



Notwithstanding what UKPC may well have to say on the matter, no doubt involving spin about delivering this service free of charge, having now provided a self registering system or about their firm 'being members of the BPA Approved Operator Scheme' (in reality, merely trade body 'club membership' which enables them to buy registered keeper data and certainly does not 'regulate' their industry) I would also respectfully suggest that you research the company you are associating with - in truth, UKPC have a terrible online reputation and are now suing customers over minor 'infringements' without referral to their clients, like yourselves, who may still naively believe that their agenda is 'parking management'.



I would welcome your own view on this harassment and hope you see fit to ensure that the Landlord cancels the PCN forthwith.

Attachments :
- shorthold tenancy copy
- PCN copy

[des8]

Good luck with that.
I would only strengthen the demand that they order UKPC to discontinue the court case, which can be one easily.

[Vasymolo]

des8 Hi
I’ve received an offer to drop it back to £50.
Which to be able to move on I’m accepting.
although that was on Wednesday and since then their Legal team seems to not have their system updating with the new price… Back to them and it seems complicated !

I wonder if they’re playing the clock.
Court claim issue date is on 11/01. I haven’t acknowledged yet. Is my deadline to do so on 29/01 or 30/01 ?
Can they still discontinue the court case if I acknowledged it and say that I will defend it to give me 14 more days ?

thanks

[des8]

Re acknowledgement of claim:
CPR 6.26 states service is 2 working days after posting
Acknowledgement should be made within 14 days
So issued 11/01 delivered 13/01 acknowledge by 27/01

send acknowledgement immediately (email & post) and you will probably be all right

confirm acceptance of the offer subject to their confirmation they will discontinue the claim.
head your letter/email "without prejudice"

[Vasymolo]

Thanks.

I have completed the AOS on MCOL. And kept a receipt as PDF. It says not to post if you've acknowledged online.
It's written that it's served 5 days after the day it is issued. So I count this right, day 1 being the 12/01, day 5 being the 16/01.
Then 14 days brings me to 30/01.

So hopeffuly I'll be fine and I'll update on the case this week or will start to write the defence by the end of the week if it is not discontinued.

[des8]