N244 form-legal advice needed. Parking ticket, originally paid for.

[BPanther]

Hi,

I've been struggling with this for months.. I really need help and guidance please.

I went to London and paid for my parking, online using my phone.
I got to my car, had a penalty.

Came home, appealled informally thinking that they wouldn't have checked their online records. So I said that I did pay for it, but they needed to check their online records and confirm me if it was there.
Lambeth came back to me recusing my appeal. It said in the letter to wait for the Notice to the Owner. (I didn't notice and I made a mistake in one letter of my car plate number. I have the receipt)

I've never received any letters because my address in my V5C was wrong. Back in 2015 when I moved home, I phoned the DVLA and updated my address with them for the Direct Debit. I was never told that I had to send my V5C. I have an European Driving License and so I didn't know I needed to send this document. Recently, when I moved again, I phoned the DVLA, updated my address and they told me to send my V5C to update my address. It's all updated now.

I received an Enforcement letter from the Bailiffs. It says Bath in it, but I thought it was about my Parking ticket in London (which is the only one I knew about). I phoned TEC and they told me to fill in TE7 and TE9. I filled in those, but the info I put there (the amount requested by the Bailiffs) was wrong, as this was about another charge. I did say that I never received the notice to the owner, stated my old address and Lambeth replied with an objection to this. (I never received any letters from Lambeth since my informal appeal).
Later on, I received a letter from TEC saying that my OOT was refused. Therefor, I could pay 100£ to have it reviewed and fill in an N224 or to pay 225£ for a hearing at the court...
Then Lambeth wrote to me to say that I have 250£ to pay and plus the fees from the bailiffs.

Unfortunately, the person that helped me to draft my papers for the Bath TE7 and TE9, said that would help me to draft my N224. However, I have no response from this person anymore.
The letter was issued by TEC on the 10th of May and they told me that I had 14 days to fill in the papers and send it...

Today I spoke with an agency that help with stuff like this and they told me that I shouldn't be paying any money anyway, because I paid for it initially.
They said that they would call the court for me to get a consent order from Lambeth and that they could request a Cost Order as well. However, their fee is very expensive and I can't afford that...

I tried to call TEC today to try to find about date limits etc, but I can never get through the phone...

Help please?

Thank you very much for your help.

[Amethyst]

Hiya

So there's two parking fines, both council fines rather than private tickets.

The issue is with the Lambeth one ? How much is actually owed currently ? £250 plus bailiff fees £75 ?

Is the Bath one sorted out?

Who is this agency and who helped you previously ? It seems to have gotten into a bit of a pickle as you hadn't realised there were two fines.

ostell

[BPanther]

Hi,

My case is a bit complicated. Let me try to explain you:

- I went to London and paid my parking by phone.
- Returned to my car and had a penalty.
- Challenged the penalty, informally, requesting Lambeth to check their online services as I had paid for the parking using an application on my phone.
- Lambeth replied and said that there was nothing on their records. I should then wait for the notice to the owner.


- I checked my receipt (that I paid by phone) and realised that I made a mistake in one letter of my car's plate number. My phone was a Samsung edge, which was broken exactly on the corner where I made the mistake. With the sun and the screen broken, I didn't realise my mistake.


- I've got an enforcement letter in April, requesting aprox. £760. I thought this was about my penalty in London (it wasn't, it was about Bath, which I found out later). I phoned TEC and filled in TE7 and TE9 as requested.
I did say on the forms that the reason why I never got the NTO was because I moved and my V5C wasn't updated.
(When I called the DVLA in 2015, they changed my address for the direct debit, but they never told me that I had to sent the V5C document, so I never did. My driving license is European. This last time, when I called them again, they changed my address for the Direct Debit and also informed me that I had to send the V5C. Now, my V5C is all updated).


- Got a letter from Lambeth objecting my TE7 and TE9 statements.
- Got a letter from TEC rejecting my TE7 and TE9, giving me the option to pay 100£ to review my case and fill in an N224 or to pay 255£ for a hearing at the court.


Unfortunately, I've made a "mistake" filling in my TE7 and TE9, because I was confused with another PCN that I wasn't aware of, plus, I didn't know that I could add every single detail about my case. I thought it was meant to be kept as a brief description.

I just need an opportunity, to have a say and explain everything that happened and to show them that I paid for my parking in first place.

Lambeth is asking me for 203£ plus fees for the Bailiffs.


On the same weekend, I went to Bath.
It appears that I drove through Pulteney Bridge 3 times, so I had 3 PCN's for this! I never ever received any letters until I received the enforcement letters (3 of them) which I wrongfully thought it was from London! I only understood this was about Bath when I phoned the Bailiffs and they explained me what the charges were about. Before, I called the Bailiffs a few times, always referring to London parking penalty, and they never told me this was something different.

These 3 PCN's were captured in 5 min. Two of them are captured on the same minute!
I filled in the papers saying that I never received the NTO.
(The signs are not very visible and there's a road coming on the right side. As I was going down, I was looking out to the road ton the right o check for any cars and I never saw the signs There's nothing written on the floor, so I really didnt know.)
I'm waiting to hear from Bath regarding these OOTs.

Sorry if this is too confusing.... Let me know if you need any further explanations.

[Milo]

Hi,

Then Lambeth wrote to me to say that I have 250£ to pay and plus the fees from the bailiffs.

Unfortunately, the person that helped me to draft my papers for the Bath TE7 and TE9, said that would help me to draft my N224. However, I have no response from this person anymore.
The letter was issued by TEC on the 10th of May and they told me that I had 14 days to fill in the papers and send it...

Today I spoke with an agency that help with stuff like this and they told me that I shouldn't be paying any money anyway, because I paid for it initially.
They said that they would call the court for me to get a consent order from Lambeth and that they could request a Cost Order as well. However, their fee is very expensive and I can't afford that...

I tried to call TEC today to try to find about date limits etc, but I can never get through the phone...

Help please?

Thank you very much for your help.

Panther, this is the 3rd forum that you have posted on and it does confuse the position very much. The following is taken from the response that I made to your query on another forum yesterday:



"Can I just take this opportunity to explain that I have provided some assistance to the OP (VPMG). At the time when she first posted on here she also posted on a motoring forum (Pepipoo). That forum suggested that she contact me via my website which she did on 1st May. I responded to her question to advise that I was in fact assisting her on this forum. She had no idea at all.

My assistance was to help with Out of Time witness statements for another borough. The particular matter that she is posting about in the past few days relate to a contravention for London Borough of Lambeth. She submitted an Out of Time witness statement for that offence herself in April. I had no involvement in that matter at all. When submitting the application she was confused and accordingly, the forms were very muddled and as a consequence, Lambeth informed the Traffic Enforcement Centre that they wished to oppose her application. She eventually received confirmation of the rejection from the Traffic Enforcement Centre a few days ago.

The fact of the matter is that she should not have been issued with the parking ticket because she had actually paid for the parking (and as evidence, she has a copy of the paid ticket). Her error was that when making payment, she had incorrectly entered one digit wrong for her vehicle registration number. Accordingly, a penalty charge was issued.

She has an option to 'seek a review' of the rejection and this is done by way of an N244 application to the Traffic Enforcement Centre. There are two snags with such an application:

One: There is a court fee of £100 to pay.

Two: The Judge reviewing the rejection is supposed to be limited to only considering the reason she gave in her original Out of Time application and the response from LB or Lambeth. Because she made an error on the forms it may be the case that the Judge will not allow the review. If so, she would have wasted £100.

My suggestion to her has been that it may be a good idea to write to LB Lambeth to explain what had actually happened (and provided evidence) and to ask that consideration be given to cancel the charge.

She received a letter in the past couple of days from the council to advise that they have passed to case to an enforcement company and that the debt is £203. They are urging her to contact the firm. I asked the OP yesterday whether she would like me to approach the company and ask whether they would be willing to place a 'hold' on the account to allow her time to approach LB of Lambeth.

I emailed her early this morning to advise that I have received a response from the EA agreeing to me request. They have placed a 30 day hold on the account."

[Amethyst]

Is it a term of the pay by phone scheme that the correct Registration Number is entered ?

[Milo]

Hi,

Today I spoke with an agency that help with stuff like this and they told me that I shouldn't be paying any money anyway, because I paid for it initially.

They said that they would call the court for me to get a consent order from Lambeth and that they could request a Cost Order as well. However, their fee is very expensive and I can't afford that...

I tried to call TEC today to try to find about date limits etc, but I can never get through the phone...

Help please?

Thank you very much for your help.

Which agency did you speak with that gave you the above advice. What fees did they quote?

Can I just make a couple of points clear to you.

The application that you would need to make to the court is an application to seek 'a Review of a Court Officer's Decision'. Such an application is specifically for road traffic debts that are registered with the Traffic Enforcement Centre.

Such an application must be made on a specific form and the form number is N244. (General Application). As outlined in my above post, Judge's hearing these applications are very limited in what they can 'review'. They are supposed to ONLY review what you had put on your Out of Time witness statement and review whether the local authority (Lambeth) were right or wrong in reaching the decision that they did (which was to reject your application). There is a fee to pay of £100 which you will not get refunded.

The debt has only just been sent to a bailiff company and I have been able to secure a 30 day hold with the company which will give you the opportunity to write to Lambeth with the evidence that you have in the hope that they may cancel the ticket. Personally, I would suggest this route first.

If it is the case that you want to spend £100 to 'Seek a Review' (of the Court Officer's Decision), then this can be done once you have the response from Lambeth.

On the matter of the 'time limit' to seek a review. The simple answer is that there is no specific time limit. The case should be on hold for 14 days to allow you time to seek a review. If you submit the form AFTER the 14 day period, you have to provide a reason for submitting the form 'Out of Time'. The reason that you would provide is that you were attempting to resolve the matter with the creditor (Lambeth).

As I have explained to you twice now on forums and once by email, I have managed to secure a '30 day' hold on your account so you really do not need to worry.

[Milo]

Is it a term of the pay by phone scheme that the correct Registration Number is entered ?

The following is a copy of the 2nd post that I made yesterday on another forum:

I should also add that in respect of entering the wrong vehicle registration number into a pay and displaying machine, I am not familiar myself with the regulations concerning this. I am pretty sure that decisions have been made by both TPT and London Tribunals and it may be to good idea for VPMG to approach the good people over at Pepipoo or on the local authority parking section of this forum for advise before she writes to LB of Lambeth.

Because there is no cost involved, I really do think that a letter to Lambeth with evidence of the ticket should be attempted first and if that fails, then consideration can be given as to whether or not to pay £100 to 'seek a review'.

PS: It may be the case that a term of the pay by phone is that responsibility lay with the motorist to ensure that the vehicle registration mark is correctly entered. If so, then the N244 route is probably going to be a waste of money.

[BPanther]

Dear Milo,

I am grateful for your input and help clarifying my situation.

However, the reason why I posted on this Forum was to seek other opinions and advices. I am hoping that someone has been in the same/ similar situation as mine and that they could advice me on what other possibilities might exist...