PCM PARKING SIGN PUT UP WHILE WE WERE PARKED and then ticketed us. - Now a Court Case

[Jocima]

Dear all,
1 year ago we were ticket in a street which is apparently a private land and that had no parking sign whatsoever before we (and another 13 cars) parked. -
I believe they installed sign and gave ticket straight after.
This is now being chased in Court. Is there any chance I can ask in Court for them to prove they installed the sign before we parked?

It's quite unusual but is from Parking Control Management. They are not even BPA members. Apparently they were a clampers company previously.
Any help or light into this case much appreciated.

[Kati]

tagging ostell charitynjw xx

[Jocima]

Hello. I found a picture from 6 months earlier which shows no signs on the street. I have a picture of the day they gave the ticket with us and another car with a ticket on. I also know the best practice is to give warnings when changing rules - they didn't give any warnings. Now they put us on County Court and I try to call they ignore to discuss the matter. Can I ask court to ask them to prove what day they didn't follow the good practice?

[ostell]

What have you done about the court claim so far

[Jocima]

Hi, thank you for asking.
Today is our deadline to pay or reply. We haven't done anything yet.
The place the car was parked was a free parking area for almost 1 year. Aug 2016 I took a picture of the area and our car parked. No signs or any warning.
It was a fight to find a place. We even had our tires punctured twice in a bid to intimidate us to stop parking there.
Then in Jan 2017, without any warning, while 15 cars were parked there they installed the signs () and ticketed everyone. The lamp post where they installed was just beside our car (). We would not have parked there if not allowed!

We ignored the original tickets. Realised now it was a wrong choice.

Now they are charging £250. We considered paying just to move forward but doing so would put a great financial strain on us. Despite the fact it's completely unfair!

Do you think we have any chance arguing? The sign they installed say "retrospective evidence of authority to park will not be accepted".

Attached pictures - ticket, sign and aero picture of when it was free to park with lots of cars parked.
1 pic with car and sign beside + 1 picture with our car with tickets and the car behind us.

[ostell]

URGENT!! Acknowledge the claim on line using the details and password on the court form. Then edit the picture so that the password cannot be seen.. You have 14 days from the date of service to do this, and that is tomorrow. If you don't you may get a default judgement against you.

You will then have 33 days from the date of issue to send a defence to the court.

Check with the local council to see if it has been adopted by them. Most councils provide a list online of adopted roads, don't just assume that it is private because a parking company says so. You, as the keeper of the car, should have received a Notice to Keeper. Can you post it up please.

There is a PCM car park there, in May 2017, so perhaps someone has persuaded them to cover the whole road.

You will, of course, in your defence say that there could have been no contract to park created because there were no signs, they were placed after the driver parked.

You will contest that they have authority to control parking.

You will contest that as the keeper they anyway cannot charge more than the amount on the original PCN, £100 possibly.

[Jocima]

Ostell, thank you so much.

If we contest it, who will decide if my contest is valid?
If they say it was not valid, and tell me to pay full amount, will it show on my credit file?

I will look for the original Notice to Keeper. If I can't find, how will it impact the process please?

Please find attached the print screen of Camden Parking areas. Nothing for Freight Lane.

This is Kings Cross. It's a new development and the area in question is in front of a Tarmac company.



My apologies in advance for my amauteur questions

[ostell]

You're in the court process now, it will be a judge !!!! It will only show on your credit file IF you lose and IF you don't pay within a month.

You're not looking for council parking areas, you're looking for adopted roads, ie roads maintainable at public expense. There is anargument also in that the road is subject to Road Traffic Act enforcement, ie the police can do you for speeding etc, then a private parking company cannot act. I'm a little hazy on that one.

Even if you lose then hopefully it will not be for the full amount.

[des8]

Be interested to see the wording of their claim as it can't be for breach of contract as that sign forbids parking at any time.

[Jocima]

Thank you! I have done the AOS.
Will prepare the defense and post here soon.
Will dispute the amount + date the sign was installed.
Attaching the first picture of Aug 2016, without any parking signs.
Thank you for all you help so far Ostell and DES8.

[ostell]

Those signs are actually forbidding. They state that there is no parking allowed on the roadway. To then allow something that has been forbidden is perverse and no contract can have been formed as no contract for parking was offered.

But you must get on to the council about adopted roads.

[ostell]

Camden Council have purchased large tracts of that area, here's a link for a starters Means nothing to me but it could mean that the road is actually adopted and the land is actually owned by the council.. If that is the case then it may not be relevant land for the purpose of POFA.

[Jocima]

[B]You, as the keeper of the car, should have received a Notice to Keeper. Can you post it up please..

I didn't find any Notice to Keeper. Do not believe we received one.

We parked there freely from Aug 2016. Jan 2017 without warning they installed the sign and ticketed ALL cars parked on the street - you can see one car behind us with a ticket too.

Jan 2018 GLADSTONE SOLICITORS started chasing us. April 2018 started a County Court.

Please find attache the requested letters and claim form.

The letter I'm preparing reads (in a very non lawyer manner):

_____________________
Dear Judge,

I would like to dispute the referred ticket because:

1. This was a free parking area for many months. There was dispute for the spots. As a consequence police was contacted in 2 occasions as the car tires were maliciously punctured.
2. Without any warning or proper display, signs were installed WHILE cars were parked at the space. Therefore, all cars parked there on the same day were ticketed. There was no contract consent or awareness from the drivers end. There could have been no contract to park created because there were no signs, they were placed after the driver parked.

Please find attached:

• Picture of our first day parking at Freight Lane. No visible signs or single or double lines on the street.
• Pictures of the day we were given the ticket which shows the car behind us also with a ticket.
• Satellite picture of the area with many cars freely parked.
• Picture of the area last month without any cars parked.

3. Even if it is considered a genuine claim, the amount is disproportional as there was not cost for the claimant. As the keeper they cannot charge more than the amount on the original PCN.

4. PNC is a company that were previously a clamper company which is known for being predatory and merciless and without great practices. I understand they have no authority to control parking and pursue this ticket.
It reads

``Private wheel-clamping firm faces becoming the first in Britain to be given an Asbo banning it from operating in towns where its staff are accused of 'extortion' against motorists.
Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd has become notorious for its predatory and merciless approach and for breaches of industry rules.
But Windsor and Maidenhead Council in Berkshire is determined to call a halt to its cash-grabbing tactics because it is giving the area a bad name with tourists.
This month it will debate whether the firm can be barred from the towns by serving it with an antisocial behaviour order - a measure originally designed to crack down on thugs and hooligans.
For years PCM, which patrols a number of private car parks, has been accused of using deception to trap hundreds of tourists and other hapless motorists. The company does not publish accounts but is thought to rake in hundreds of thousands of pounds a year. ``

Reference: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz5Evi4XEDC

5. The signs they installed are actually forbidding. They state that there is no parking allowed on the roadway. To then allow something that has been forbidden is perverse and no contract can have been formed as no contract for parking was offered.
____________________________

Should I add or remove any part?

[ostell]

That is not a defence, this is not a polite letter to a judge but a properly formatted sectioned document, Search around for the format of a defence. You were not the driver, you are the registered keeper. If you have not received a Notice to Keeper then the can only claim against the driver who they do not know so your first statement will be that you are the registered keeper of the car. The claim is confusing as you do not know if they are claiming from you the registered keeper or the driver who they do not know. This makes it difficult to prepare a defence. You understand from the driver that the signs which were not in place previously were installed during the day after the car was parked. There can be no liability as no contract was formed on parking. There has been no notice to keeper received from the claimant and therefore there can be no keeper liability. The signs are forbidding in nature and therefore incapable of creating any contract that could be breached. The company have failed to show that they have any authority to operate on that land. The company have failed to show how the sum of £174 is arrived at. You believe that this is an attempt to charge unallowable legal charges.

All evidence is provided when you submit your witness statement later in the process.

Have you contacted the council again to see about the status of that road?

Suggest you start a thread in the Pepipoo forum to help with the defence.

[Jocima]

You were not the driver, you are the registered keeper.

But if they send the court claim on my name, they probably know I am the registered keeper right?

I will study the form of defense and will look into Pepipoo.

ostell, I can't thank you enough. Great job of yours helping people. Congratulations!
If I can help anyhow, please let me know!

UPDATE: I found some DEFENSE templates. It came to my attention this paraghaph - . The Particulars of Claim do not give any reasons why the Claimant requires a payment other than it results from‘breaching the terms of parking on the land’. Signage displayed on ADDRESS are forbidding signs that cannot create a contract. In the cases of B4GF26K6 PCM (UK) v Mr B, B4GF27K3 PCM (UK) v Mr W and B4GF26K2 PCM (UK) v Ms L it was demonstrated that forbidding signage at==== residential parking=== spaces did not create a contract.

THE place we parked it not residential. It was a street in from of a Tarmac Company, between another Bus Garage. Would it still apply to my case?