Excel parking, BW Legal

[Ella1886]

Hello Everyone

I have just joined the site. First of all can I just say my post may come across as very emotional, I apologise if it embarrasses anyone. I have just had a brain tumour removed and so am quite emotional at the moment and am struggling with memory and concentration, all part of the process, so please make allowances.

The driver parked in a car park Nov 2016, run by Excel. The driver assumed because the car park was empty when they arrived both days Saturday and Sunday that it was free at weekends ( naive and foolish) and parked all day whilst attending a course. Received PCN letters dated 11 days after the parking from Excel with a photo stating had parked without paying and pay £100 OR £60 if settled within 28 days. I had just been diagnosed. The next foolish step was to ask a friend who told the driver don't pay its extortionate etc etc and so after the lecture of don't ever let this happen again we told the driver to ignore on this occasion. Letters continued from Excel x 2, DRP, x 2, Zenith x 2 and the latest the driver has received is from BW Legal stating £160 in 16 days or will commit to County Court. I persuaded the driver ( who is not in a good place at the moment) not to pay so I feel I need to sort this. However because of my vulnerable state I am becoming very anxious about it and am actually crying at the moment as I do not know which way to turn and do not know what happens with these things, I feel a wreck and not sure what to do. We have already beaten ourselves up about this but now need to move forward and try to resolve it without me feeling I am going to go under. I am really sorry for the emotional speak but can anyone advise please. I am also not particularly tech savvy, I'm hoping I have posted this in the right way.
Thanks

[ostell]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

So first of all edit your post so that the driver cannot be inferred. state "The driver... "

Next could you post up the original Notice to Keeper that were received, with the personal detail removed but leave the dates. Is it possible to post a photo of the sign, or at least give us a Google Street View link. If the notice has nothing about being liable every 24 hours then that's the figure halved.

Ignore has not been good advice since 2012 with the introduction of the Protection Of Freedoms Act Schedule 4 (I kid you not!). Perhaps the friend who was so willing to give advice will help pay.

[Ella1886]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

Hi Ostell thank you so much for the reply. I shall visit the site tomorrow to get a photo of the notice, unless I can work out google view. I'm afraid I may be more of a liability here because I cannot work out how to attach a copy of a photo of the first letter that arrived ( I've covered the sensitive info) and I'm also not sure if this reply area is the right one because under both our names it says reply etc, so not sure I'm in the correct place.

[Ella1886]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

Hi
I have a copy of the original PCN received for Sat 19/11/16 and a copy was also received for Sun 20/11/16 ( the driver parked 2 separate days). Also have a copy of a photo of a ticket machine in the car park. BW Legal is dated 18/10/17 need to respond within 16 days - is that 2nd November if I include 18th? Also what is the worst that can as we have made no contact whatsoever throughout this process . I am doing this on an iPad, how do I put these documents on ? Thanks

[charitynjw]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

I cannot work out how to attach a copy of a photo of the first letter that arrived

how do I put these documents on ?

You can send as an email attachment to our @Kati

I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is

kati@legalbeagles.info

But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

Could you include the BWL letter?

[Kati]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

got them xx

[ostell]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

That NTK appears to me that it does not conform to POFA, at a quick glance 9 (2) (f) is missing (unless it is stated on the reverse), period of parking (not time between cameras, Date of posting, no creditor identified and therefore the keeper cannot be held liable. There is no basis in law that the keeper can be assumed to be the driver.

BW legal are not permitted to add on additional legal costs as this would, if pursued, be on the small claims track and that is not allowed.

If the missing items aren't on the back of the NTK then write to BWL pointing out that you, the keeper cannot be held liable for the actions of the driver as the Notice to Keeper did not comply with the mandated requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4, namely but not limited to, failure to include paragraph 9 (2) (f). Any further action by them would be considered vexatious and further use of your personal data now that there can be no liability would be in breach of the Data Protection Act.

You note the statement about keeper being held liable on the assumption that they were the driver. Could you define which portion of legislation permits this. If your clients intend to rely on Elliot v Loake this was a criminal case with compelling forensic evidence which has been rejected many times in parking cases. Unless, of course, you have that compelling forensic evidence.

[charitynjw]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

A pic of the rear of the Notice to Keeper would help.

The front makes no mention of 'payment in full', another requirement of PoFA.

& that BWL letter does not conform to the new pre-action protocol.
I'll bet they know this, as they state they will 'seek instructions'.

[Ella1886]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

Thank you all for your assistance, I've sent a copy of the reverse of the NTK to be uploaded for me as I don't know how to do. I can't see this 9 (2) f ? but then as I've explained I'm struggling with comprehending things in my current state of health so I may have misunderstood. So I assume when you've checked it I will need to do a letter with the wording of the last 2 paragraphs as pointed out by Ostell, do I sign it in the name of the keeper ( I apologise in advance if what you are saying you have to repeat and feel frustrated by my response), so worried about doing it wrong and messing it up after you've all been so helpful with your support, blame it on the brain surgery I've just had and looking after a mother with dementia ( very trying times at the moment). Thank you all so much again. This site and your assistance has been an absolute godsend for me with this.

A pic of the rear of the Notice to Keeper would help.

The front makes no mention of 'payment in full', another requirement of PoFA.

& that BWL letter does not conform to the new pre-action protocol.
I'll bet they know this, as they state they will 'seek instructions'.

[charitynjw]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

No problem, Ella1886

If you've sent it to Kati, I'll give her a tag to keep an eye out.
[MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION]

[Kati]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

got it [MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] xx

[charitynjw]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

Thanks, @Kati

Ella
9(2)(f) is in reference to Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, which is the legislation governing certain aspects of 'parking on private land' law.
Schedule 4, para 9(2)(f) of the Act

(f)

warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)

the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)

the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,
the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted

The notice must contain the correct words.

There is nothing to worry about on the back of that letter.

[Ella1886]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

Incidentally, Ostell you mention period of parking, I've covered the 2 photos (with reg on) that state underneath Entry time19/11/17 and the time and Exit time 19/11/17 and time on it. Also it gives a Contravention time: and states Duration of stay: in minutes. I'm sure you've already taken that into account, I just wouldn't want to think I've 'masked' too many things for you to have the full picture. Once again apologies if I'm stating the obvious. Thanks again all for this assistance.

got it @charitynjw xx

[charitynjw]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

The photos are ANPR captures of the vehicle entering & exiting.
They do not evidence the actual time of parking (The driver may have driven around for a few minutes looking for somewhere suitable.) The important bit is that legislation says that 1/ they must state a period of parking & 2/ that the payment has not been paid in full.
They are technical defences based on failures in the Notice due the strict wording of the legislation.

[Ella1886]

Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

So it's not enough to say 'Duration of stay'? Time in minutes ?

I'll log back in later to double check where I go from here ( presume still do letter) and if sign in keeper's name? If hard copy, special delivery ? What date put on , all those things etc. Thanks again everyone.

The photos are ANPR captures of the vehicle entering & exiting.
They do not evidence the actual time of parking (The driver may have driven around for a few minutes looking for somewhere suitable.) The important bit is that legislation says that 1/ they must state a period of parking & 2/ that the payment has not been paid in full.
They are technical defences based on failures in the Notice due the strict wording of the legislation.