PCN Now court papers .

[ostell]

The contract is formed when the driver read the sign. This was decided in the courts. As they do not know the driver they have the right, under schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to claim from the keeper of the vehicle when they don't know the identity of the driver.

What was in that envelope that was attached to the windscreen? If that was a parking charge notice then there may be failure to comply with POFA.

[Cuchilo]

The one on the windscreen says in large letters " This is not a parking charge notice "
I thought the courts decided that this could happen in a paying car park as the ticket you buy has the contract on it , so you are issued with a contract .
How does this also included free car parks with no contract issued ? Plus how can a contract be legal if only one party is aware of it ?

[ostell]

No, in a paying carpark the contract is what is one the signs. The contract starts when the payment is made. Free car park the contract on the signs is accepted by the actions of the driver in parking.

[Cuchilo]

So there is no point going to court to deny having a contract because you no longer need to be aware of a contract to have a contract ? Pay the £185 and save getting a CCJ ?

[ostell]

You are aware of a contract because you saw the signs. It wasn't the middle of the night so the signs were visible.

Unfortunately at this late stage I think you would lose in court. Why not try making them a sensible offer so that it can be cancelled.? Remember that it will cost them more than they can recover from you after they have paid for representation and the hearing fee. Make an offer of, say, £120, and seee what they say. They have spent out on court fees so you can't go too low.

[Cuchilo]

So it is possible that they will not want to go to court ? I sent back the court form saying i had received their letter and ticked the box that said dispute the claim . I have not sent the defence form back yet .
If they decide to go to court ( My local county court i was told by county court business center ) will i have to pay those costs if i lose or will it still be £185 ?

[ostell]

They would love to not go to court, it costs them more than they can possibly get back. It is rumoured that a legal rep to represent them will be about £300, a cost they cannot recover.

There will be at least £25 for the hearing fee, As this is Small Claims COurt it is unlikely that any further costs will be added unless they can show that you have been unreasonable.

You have 33 days form the date of issue to get your defence to the court.

[Cuchilo]

As i understand it this is where i am right now .
I need to send my defence form to the county court business centre .
If the county court business centre cant make a decision then they ask the claimant what they want to do .
If they decide to go to court it will be my local court and may cost me £25 on top of the £185 .
So if i send my defence form back saying dispute of contract then the CCBC wont be able to make a decision and it will have to go to court or be dropped ?

[ostell]

To save me looking back I hope you have sent in the acknowledgement on line. The CCBC do not make a decision, they act as a central clearing house for court claims. When your defence is received by them before the 33 days is up and they know that the claim is being defended they then send out another form where you select your local court. The case is then transferred to the court of your choice and you get the chance to appear at the court and present your case. The court date will be several months away. No one decides the claim until that hearing. Plenty of time to persuade them to withdraw from the case.

You can tell them that you know that going to court will cost them substantially more than they can ever hope to recover and to save yourself and them from further hassle, costs and lost time you are prepared to offer £xx in full and final settlement and without admitting any liability.

[Cuchilo]

Not done anything on line , i sent the acknowledgement form back via the post office .

[ostell]

You need to get the defence in by day 33 otherwise you will lose by default. Look around at other defences. Were the spaces big enough for the van, were the signs clear enough?

[Cuchilo]

What the minimum defence reply i can send the CCBC ?
The £185 smarts a bit but if they spend more money and time on this than me then that's good .
Like kicking a bully in the balls :o)

[ostell]

That's why I suggested making an offer.

[Cuchilo]

Just spoken to them and asked if they would like to cancel the claim . They said no so i offered £20 .
Court it is then .
I wonder where the most expensive place is for them to hire someone . Westminster at a guess .

[ostell]

You knew that £20 would not be accepted. Something like £100 would be a starting point.

Do they know who was driving? A simple Yes or No. If they don't then as they are taking proceedings against the keeper then the maximum that they can claim is the £100 that was on the original PCN. POFA 4 (5) . Add to this the permitted max of £50 for legal fees plus £25 court fee.