** WON ** Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

[Shauney]

Hi everyone,

I got a parking charge notice through the post for parking under 20 minutes without having a valid ticket, but a £1 ticket for 1 hour had been bought for the time in question.

I later found out that the car park is in fact 2 car parks sharing the same exit/entrances, both of which are controlled by Smart Parking. The ticket was bought from the machine nearest the parking bay, which might have been the wrong one. After doing a google search it became apparent that this is a common mistake, as the set up is confusing, and signs throughout all areas of the car park show the Smart Parking logo.

A ticket was bought (and subsequently thrown out) for the time in question. The photos on the PCN show the car entering and leaving. One of the machines will have records of a ticket being bought at the time in question (but with no vehicle registration details).

At the entrance of the entire compound there is no sign to say that there are two separate car parks within the perimeter.

In my informal appeal I told smart parking I wasn't driving at the time in question, but they haven't given me the chance to pass on the driver's details.

A £60/£100 charge after a ticket was paid for and not even fully used seems highly unreasonable.

Does anyone think I'd win a POPLA appeal on these grounds?

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated!

[charitynjw]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

Hi Shauney, welcome to LB.

Do you live in England/Wales?

Have you still got the original postal PCN?
If so post it up, front & rear, obscure personal details but leave dates visible.

Also pics of the site sign if possible.

One thing I can't figure....if there are 2 car parks but only 1 entrance/exit, & they rely on ANPR, how do they know which car park is being used by each driver?

[Shauney]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

Hi Charitynjw,

Thanks for the reply and the welcome!

I'll attach the photos- Iceland park is on the right as you go in, confusingly there is one sign in the Iceland car park stating it is controlled by Horizon, and one sign stating Smart Parking. The meters in the main car park are behind the cars on the left, on a lower level than the main entrance.

There is one set of cameras watching the main entrance, and another watching the internal entrance into the Iceland section.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Thanks again!

[Shauney]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

And the front of PCN:

[Shauney]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

And entrance to whole compound (Iceland area on right):

[Shauney]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

And another taken from inside the Iceland carpark, past the bit of wall is the main car park. You can see the signs announcing the main car park meters in the distance, which are themselves out of sight.

[charitynjw]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

Let me know if you need anything else.

Have you still got the original postal PCN?
If so post it up, front & rear, obscure personal details but leave dates visible.

Top right hand corner of NtK.

[Shauney]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

Thanks for your reply,

The photo above with yellow stickers is first letter that came, it was dated 31/08/2017. The date of incident was 16/08/2017.

The only other correspondence has been a letter dismissing the informal appeal.

Should they have sent something else, and if so, would this go against them?

Cheers!

[Shauney]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

Hi Shauney, welcome to LB.

Do you live in England/Wales?

Have you still got the original postal PCN?
If so post it up, front & rear, obscure personal details but leave dates visible.

Also pics of the site sign if possible.

One thing I can't figure....if there are 2 car parks but only 1 entrance/exit, & they rely on ANPR, how do they know which car park is being used by each driver?

Sorry, yes I'm in Carlisle, Cumbria

[charitynjw]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

(4)

The notice must be given by—

(a)

handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)

sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)

The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

Para 9(4) & (5)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted
Also bear in mind that postal delivery is deemed to be 2 days for 1st class post.

You any good with math?, lol!

[Shauney]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

Bloody hell, it's definitely more than 14 days anyway! Don't think it came until the 4th Sep.

thanks a lot, I'll write up an appeal and will keep you informed.

Respect!

[charitynjw]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

Also, 31st August was a Thursday.
Saturday & Sunday don't count as 'postal' days.

So the earliest it can have been deemed* served is Monday 4th, possTuesday 5th September.

(6)

A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

(Same link as above)

Don't ID the driver, even by implication!
Respond as the registered keeper.

[Shauney]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

Also, 31st August was a Thursday.
Saturday & Sunday don't count as 'postal' days.

So the earliest it can have been deemed* served is Monday 4th, possTuesday 5th September.

(Same link as above)

Don't ID the driver, even by implication!
Respond as the registered keeper.

That's perfect, thanks. I won't ID the driver. I'll use the fact that they missed the deadline to serve the PCN, then I will bring in the other points such as confusing signs, set up of car park, the fact I wasn't driving, and the fact that the charge is unreasonable, and that the driver purchased a ticket from Smart Parking.

Does anyone have any experience of taking a parking company to small claims court to compensate for wasted time, letters, legal fees, etc following a successful appeal?

[charitynjw]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

I doubt that it would go any further than POPLA, as it's an obvious'fail' re PoFA.

If it were me I'd just appeal to the parking co as registered keeper, stating that the Notice to Keeper is not compliant, & therefore there is no registered keeper liability. Let them do the donkey work in trying to figure out why.
Also tell them to remove your details from their database as continued use breaches the Data Protection Act.
If they reject this they must provide you with a POPLA code to appeal, & the appeal costs them money (free to you, though! ).
You can then submit a detailed POPLA appeal.
But since the ParkingEye/Beavis case, it is difficult to argue 'unreasonable charge'....if it were me I wouldn't bother.
You have a pretty good argument without that.

[Shauney]

Re: Smart Parking POPLA appeal- ticket was bought- 2 car parks in 1

I doubt that it would go any further than POPLA, as it's an obvious'fail' re PoFA.

If it were me I'd just appeal to the parking co as registered keeper, stating that the Notice to Keeper is not compliant, & therefore there is no registered keeper liability. Let them do the donkey work in trying to figure out why.
Also tell them to remove your details from their database as continued use breaches the Data Protection Act.
If they reject this they must provide you with a POPLA code to appeal, & the appeal costs them money (free to you, though! ).
You can then submit a detailed POPLA appeal.
But since the ParkingEye/Beavis case, it is difficult to argue 'unreasonable charge'....if it were me I wouldn't bother.
You have a pretty good argument without that.

Hi again,

Thanks for the info. I already appealed to Smart Parking and they dismissed my appeal. My next step is to appeal to POPLA, with the code I was given. It would be greatly appreciated if someone could have a look over my letter and tell me if the wording is in an appropriate tone, and that I've raised enough pertinent points. Thanks in advance:



Parking Charge Notice: xxx
POPLA verification code: xxx

29/09/2017

Dear Sir/Madam,

On 05/09/2017 I received a parking charge notice from Smart Parking for vehicle xxx, of which I am the registered keeper (see fig 1). In the letter Smart Parking allege that my vehicle was parked in xxx Carlisle, without the driver having paid for the ‘appropriate parking time’.

I am disputing the parking charge notice on the following grounds:

1. The parking charge notice was served outside of the 14 day limit, as outlined in http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted, para 9 (4), (5). In light of the aforementioned breach of legislation Notice to Keeper is not compliant and therefore there is no keeper liability. The Notice to Keeper letter is dated 31/08/17, stating the alleged contravention date was 16/08/2017. The earliest date that the Notice to Keeper can be deemed served is 04/09/2017, in accordance with para (6) of the above legislation.

1. I wasn’t driving the car and therefore would not be liable for any parking charge notice, even in a case of Notice to Keeper compliance.

1. The driver of the car on the date in question had in fact bought and displayed a ticket from a Smart Parking machine for £1, covering an hour, of which only 16 minutes were used (see fig 1). As Notice to Keeper was served by post after a significant time delay, the paper copy of the ticket is no longer in the car, but proof of the ticket in question can be accessed via a Smart Parking controlled ticket machine in the Lowther Street car park, which will have recorded the time of purchase for a 1 hour ticket within a minute of the car arriving in the compound.

1. There are no signs at the entrance to the parking compound, which contains 2 separate parking sites, stating that you are entering an area that contains 2 separate parking areas. This is unclear and confusing to any drivers entering the compound (see fig 2). As such drivers will enter the compound without knowing the terms and conditions of the land, its ownership, and the implications on their rights of way.

1. The whole of the parking compound is controlled by Smart Parking—as shown by signs in both car parks (see figs 3 and 4). However, there are 2 signs for the Iceland car park in the compound, 1 stating the car park is controlled by Horizon, and 1 sign stating the car park is controlled by Smart Parking. This is unclear and confusing, and misleading to any drivers entering either car park within the compound.

Thank you for considering this dispute.

Yours faithfully,