civil enforcement ltd county court case

[magiver]

Hello. I got a fine in august 2016 for parking on private land - Kentucky fried chicken in Hatfield - and overstaying the allowed 90 minuted by 15 minutes.

I sent an offer of £20 with a cheque shortly after (my letter offered this sum as fair payment for the inconvenience I caused). this was returned with a new, higher "bill".

The "bill" seemed to go up all the time which seemed unlawful to me. I ignored further requests for payment, filing them away.

Case passed to Civil Enforcement Limited. They have issued court proceedings (issue date 8 june 2017) and the Particulars of Claim (dated 13 June 2017).

The initial fine was £120 i think (60 if paid early). They now demand £330 which includes solicitor fee and filing costs.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading and thank you Leagle Beagles for this generous public resource.

Simon

[charitynjw]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Hi magiver

Have you revealed who was driving at the time of the parking incident? If not...don't!
Windscreen ticket issued? ANPR? Other?
Do you have the first posted Notice to Keeper?
Do you have pictures of the site & parking signage?

[magiver]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Thank you so much for replying. And a Sunday too. In answer to your questions:
I don't recal saying I was driving. My only communication was a letter offering £20 as fair settlement. I followed instructions on a site on the web so as to minimise any consent issues.
Civil enforcement replied with a letter rejecting my offer and returning the cheque and saying it's too late to make an appeal/representation.
I do not recal a PCN or anything on my car. I got a PCN letter from Civil Enforcement (creditor) with photos of vehicle and a payment slip at the bottom. £100 or £60 if quick payment. date 25,08,2016
5/10/16 red final reminder £100
28 nov letter demanding £140
4/1/17 ZZPS £200
20/1/17 ZZPS Company letter "balance" £200
13/2/17 Wright Hassell (apt name) £236
2/3/17 letter from Wright Hassall £236
Court Proceeding issue date 8/6/17
Signage was quite good with showing allowed time 90 minutes
Thank you once again.
Magiver

[magiver]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Hi. Please can you advise me? I replied a week ago with all the details. Please can you suggest a route? should I pay the £330?
Thanks in advance.
Magiver

[magiver]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Hello. I am not sure how to use this forum. I replied to a series of questions form a very kind VIP member who answered my original message a week ago. I may have used the wrong "reply" system because I haven't heard back. I have court papers and particulars of claim from over a week ago. Demanding £330. I am completely out of my depth with legal matters. Please reply or I will be left with no option but to pay. I can't understand how they get away with ramping up the "fee" constantly.
Kind regards
Magiver

[ostell]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Have you acknowledged the claim? If not do that immediately do that NOW using the details and password on the form. You will be defended in full. DO NOT PUT ANYTHING IN THE DEFENCE at the moment. By acknowledging this gives you 33 days from the date of issue to send your defence to the court.

You can argue against some of the additional costs that have been added but what are they actually claiming? If they have claimed for solicitors costs, other than the £50 allowed in the small claims court then this can be challenged. If they are claiming form you as the keeper under POFA then they can only claim from the keeper the amount due on the day before the NTK was issued.

[magiver]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Thank you very much for your help. i have done as you said. I believe you intended me to tick the "defend all of the claim" box, which I did.
They are claiming £325.79
ammount claimed 250.79
court fee 25
solicitor 50
total £325.79
initial PCN was for £100 or £50 if paid quickly.
if you think they have got me, I'd rather get it over with and pay up because I am stretched for time.
thank you for your time. i am very grateful.

[ostell]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Probably difficult to not have to pay because of the time but may be able to reduce the amount they are claiming. Have you got the original Notice to Keeper that you received?

They are claiming from the keeper therefore the maximum they can claim under POFA is the amount outstanding on the day before the issue of the issue of the NTK, plus court fees + solicitor fees if it is a solicitor handling the case.

It would really help if you had a copy of the original NTK.

You have to submit your defence within 33 days of the date of issue.

[charitynjw]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Hi magiver

In most instances you are allowed a 'grace period' of about 10 minutes (after the initial 90 minutes in this case) in which to exit the site.
This grace period could be 'extended' if you have a disability which would give you a right to extra consideration via the Equality Act. The Claimant, or their sols, would need to be informed of this asap, though.

As [MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION] has indicated, the NTK & wording of site signage, & location, lighting etc of same may be key to your defence.

[magiver]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Dear Ostell and Charitynjw, I do have the PCN (NTK letter)
says car parked from 11.05 - 12:57. That's 113 minutes. Max allowed 90 minutes.
fine £100 or £60 if 14 days
I don't have a disability
I kept ALL correspondence from them.
The signage and lighting were all very good. I got distracted and over stayed. My fault.
I don't mind paying, but the constant ramping up of the "penalty" seems unfair to me.
YOu mention I may be able to pay the original fee plus solicitor plus court fees . that would be preferable.
thank you
magiver

[charitynjw]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle

4

(1)

The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.

(2)

The right under this paragraph applies only if—

(a)

the conditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met; and

(b)

the vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.

(3)

For the purposes of the condition in sub-paragraph (2)(b), the vehicle is to be presumed not to be a stolen vehicle at the material time, unless the contrary is proved.

(4)

The right under this paragraph may only be exercised after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given.

(5)

The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(c) or (d) or, as the case may be, 9(2)(d) (less any payments towards the unpaid parking charges which are received after the time so specified).

(6)

Nothing in this paragraph affects any other remedy the creditor may have against the keeper of the vehicle or any other person in respect of any unpaid parking charges (but this is not to be read as permitting double recovery).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4

[ostell]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Does any of the correspondence mention something about legal costs incurred or something similar? Small claims, they cannot claim for legal costs that have been added, apart from the £50 on the claim form.

[magiver]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

only court fee £25 plus solicitor £50 plus £250 for the fine.
do you recommend i tell the court that I believe I owe the original £100 fine plus the court and solicitor fees=100+25+50=£175? As per the "maximum sum" outlined in the notes above?
thank you both!
magiver

[ostell]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

Yes you should put that into your defence and take 3 copies of that section of POFA into court. This applies if they are claiming against you as the keeper and they do not know who was driving. You don't have to say.

Just to recap:

• You have acknowleged the claim
• You have not yet sent in a defence

[magiver]

Re: civil enforcement ltd county court case

I didn't realise i would have to go to court. Court is in Northampton. I live far away. i am self employed. i can't afford the time.

I will pay up the full amount unless you suggest another option. Must I attend court?