PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

[didactosaurus]

Hi all. Not sure if this is the best/right forum to post in - if not please direct me where to go!

Received a PCN from those unconscionable ****s at ParkingEye on 4th Jan - the day before my birthday. And, just to add insult to injury, it's from a last-minute hectic shopping trip on Xmas eve! It's a Notice to Keeper format with 2 ANPR pics of my reg plate.

The car park is at Two Saints retail park, Ormskirk. I was calling to Argos to collect some items and have a receipt from the store.

The signage (which is crammed with text and hard to read when driving in, trying not to run over harassed shoppers, and find a parking space) is to the left on entry to the car park - well, it's at the top left. I didn't see it right away as I was desperately scanning for a space and watching the cars in front of me.

I arrived at 14.34, according to them. Took me at least 10 mins to find a space as, being Xmas Eve, it was heaving. I then went to Argos (have a receipt) and other stores on the park. At some point I saw the sign and realised it was 1 hour free. Went to pay and couldn't find enough change - I was in a rush anyway so decided I could get done & out within the hour. My only problem was - I had no idea exactly what time I arrived. I thought I'd be OK.

Wrong.

The PCN states I arrived at 14.34 and departed at 15.45. Time in car park: 1 hours 10 minutes.

I spent a small fortune in the shops, but can only find the Argos receipt, which is timed at about 14.50.

I've read up on this and it seems there is every chance I could lose any appeal and end up paying well over £100. The 'discounted' rate is £60 but I only have until Tues 17th Jan to pay that.

I haven't replied to them at all yet, due to other more pressing personal matters to sort. I am loath to pay these shysters a single penny (although I would freely pay the £2 or so I should have paid to stay the extra 10 minutes I didn't realise I was getting). However we have a lot going on at the moment and the prospect of a much higher bill than the already sickening amount these thieves are demanding makes me feel I should just pay up now - UNLESS there is a very good chance I could get this removed, or even much reduced, by appealing.

I will try to post a redacted copy of the PCN once I can get a scan of it (Windows 10 has killed my laptop so I'm having to run Ubuntu...).

Could I appeal on the grounds that I didn't know exactly when my 'free hour' started, and that if they are going to hold people so exactly to the time they entered the car park, never mind allow time to find a space, they at least should have a ticket machine notifying us of the exact time we entered?

Would really appreciate any quick advice on this due to the pressing timescale. Thanks all

[Kati]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Parking Eye is a BPA member isn't it [MENTION=61126]didactosaurus[/MENTION]??

Try this for now ... go through M1's questions following the links in the quote (and request a popla code) I'm sure he'll get to you when he can but I know he's pretty busy atm xx:

You need to see which trade association the company belongs to. If the notice has an IPC logo at the bottom (orange) they will be IPC members. If they have a BPA logo (blue) then they will be BPA members. Alternatively click on IPC members and BPA members and read the current lists.

BPA member tickets click here.


IPC member tickets click here.

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I will try to post a redacted copy of the PCN once I can get a scan of it (Windows 10 has killed my laptop so I'm having to run Ubuntu...).

Ubuntu's not that bad (once you get used to it) ... what version are you using? You could always take a pic on a phone and email it to me with a link to this thread??

[didactosaurus]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Parking Eye is a BPA member isn't it @didactosaurus??

Try this for now ... go through M1's questions following the links in the quote (and request a popla code) I'm sure he'll get to you when he can but I know he's pretty busy atm xx:


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Ubuntu's not that bad (once you get used to it) ... what version are you using? You could always take a pic on a phone and email it to me with a link to this thread??

Thanks for replying, Kati - seems an age since I was last on here every other day when Richard Head & BPS was the flavour of the month . Am using 16.04 LTS, it has allowed me to install the printer but I can't use the scanner function. Also I've just changed my router so that's another little headache to overcome . I agree tht Ubuntu's OK, I just miss my games & some apps on Windows.

I'll try to sort it and if not will email a pic ASAP

[didactosaurus]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Not like me to feel negative about fighting inequality, but having done some reading up I wonder if it is worth fighting this at all. Have read several threads of POPLA being next to useless in recent cases, and the Beavis case ruling that £100 is a 'reasonable charge'!!! WTF! Maybe to a High Court Judge with a huge detached mansion somewhere in the stockbroker belt, but not to us mere mortals.

Also it seems the only successful appeals seem to be if there is something 'unfair' about the appellant's situation - clearly £100 for being 10 mins over the free hour in a car park IS unreasonable, but it seems courts wouldn't accept that in light of the Beavis case?

If there's any chance I will end up paying the £100, plus maybe costs, then it seems to me it's more financially prudent for me and my family to pay the 'discounted' £60, which I have until Tuesday to do.

I'd appreciate honesty from anyone in the know - if there's a good chance I will lose an appeal, then is paying now the best option?

Thanks all

[Kati]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Thanks for replying, Kati - seems an age since I was last on here every other day when Richard Head & BPS was the flavour of the month .

It has been a while hasn't it

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Not like me to feel negative about fighting inequality, but having done some reading up I wonder if it is worth fighting this at all. Have read several threads of POPLA being next to useless in recent cases, and the Beavis case ruling that £100 is a 'reasonable charge'!!! WTF! Maybe to a High Court Judge with a huge detached mansion somewhere in the stockbroker belt, but not to us mere mortals.

Also it seems the only successful appeals seem to be if there is something 'unfair' about the appellant's situation - clearly £100 for being 10 mins over the free hour in a car park IS unreasonable, but it seems courts wouldn't accept that in light of the Beavis case?

If there's any chance I will end up paying the £100, plus maybe costs, then it seems to me it's more financially prudent for me and my family to pay the 'discounted' £60, which I have until Tuesday to do.

I'd appreciate honesty from anyone in the know - if there's a good chance I will lose an appeal, then is paying now the best option?

Thanks all

Personally, I'd appeal ... M1's great at it :nod:!! Even if you lose at POPLA (and chances are you'll win anyway) there are other options xx

[didactosaurus]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

It has been a while hasn't it

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Personally, I'd appeal ... M1's great at it :nod:!! Even if you lose at POPLA (and chances are you'll win anyway) there are other options xx

Nice to be back, but not nice, lol . Yes, M1's threads look very comprehensive - certainly knows legalese. My main concern is that even if I appeal (and believe me, I don't want to pay these conniving scumbags a penny!) I will end up paying them the full £100. I'm already fuming, but to end up fighting them and losing - that WOULD wind me up. Have read up on the mistakes they've made in the past on NTKs but it seems these have been rectified on the one they've sent me. Plus they have the Beavis ruling in their favour. Had I a ticket, or had broken down or something - but I haven't and didn't so I can't see how I will get away with it. Too late now to pursue the landlord of Two Saints retail park, and as there are several shops there I can't see how the manager of Argos (where I spent the most, over £115, and the only one I have a receipt for) will be able to do anything...in work all day tomorrow as well so won't be able to spend any time working on this until after office hours. And discounted deadline is Tues!

I'm thinking fiscally - it makes no sense to gamble on an outcome that may be more costly UNLESS there is say over a 90% chance that it will work.

As well as this I might have to deal with the slightly more pressing matter of the CashZone ATM that I tried to withdraw £230 from, twice, on Friday - which failed to dispense the cash - but took the £460 out of my account, using up my cash limit for that day and leaving me unable to get cash anywhere else to pay the plasterers I'd had working all day at my house.

2017 isn't looking like a great year so far!

[Kati]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Sorry for the late reply, I was getting my toddler to bed ... as I said, M1 has a great track record and I am sure that the parking companies are meant to give you at least ten minutes grace period (to allow you time to find a space, park, read the signs etc... on entry and also to give you time to leave), but ultimately it's up to you. I'm happy to give you all the help you need xx

[didactosaurus]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Cheers Kati. I remember the toddler days! They just grow and become teens/tweens that still won't go to bed or have to have their phones taken off them, like my older two....

I've taken a pic on my phone - I'll email to you now. I don't have time to redact my info so if you want to post it up do you think you could black the pertinent bits out? Thanks

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Sorry about the blobs, BTW - that's from where my youngest dropped my phone and smashed the camera lens

[didactosaurus]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Sorry about the blobs, BTW - that's from where my youngest dropped my phone and smashed the camera lens
...and I forgot to link to this thread!

[mystery1]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Approach the shops and speak to management. You were paid for 1 hour and they sent a ticket for 10 minutes ?

Breach of the code of practice.

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/writ...update_V6..pdf

13 Grace periods
13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a
driver who enters your car park but decides not to park,
to leave the car park within a reasonable period without
having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’
in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the
driver is on your land without permission you should still
allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave
before you take enforcement action.
13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period
at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the
private car park after the parking contract has ended, before
you take enforcement action. If the location is one where
parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end
of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.




Time on arrival AND at least 10 on departure.

Use the template. "The driver was a genuine customer (see attached receipt) and they were within the grace period as defined within the BPAcode paragraph 13."

M1

[Kati]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

NTK:

[mystery1]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Pretty certain this will be won on grace periods at popla.

M1

[didactosaurus]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Pretty certain this will be won on grace periods at popla.

M1

Thanks, M1 and Kati, for replying. On advice from a friend I've got Tony from Appeal My Ticket on the case. He thinks the same as you. Fingers crossed! I'll post an update as & when...

[mystery1]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

Hopefully that works out fine for you.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5214600

To be fair that was a while ago and he is still going. £15 for 10 minutes work though

M1

[didactosaurus]

Re: PCN received from Parking Eye - 14 day period runs out Tues 17.1.17

@mystery1 and @Kati - Unfortunately not working out so far. I wish I'd read your link to that MSE thread before I instructed AppealMyTicket.

Despite the driver being only 10 minutes over the 1 hour free - a period which would fall easily within the 'minimum 10 minutes grace period' stipulated in the BPA guidance - Mr T's 'appeal' (which, despite having requested a copy of, has not been received) was seemingly rejected by a barely literate POPLA assessor, who said:

'Whilst I note that the appellant has said in his comments to the operator's case file that you are given a grace period, this was not mentioned in the appellant's original grounds for appeal and so, I will not consider this ground for appeal.'

I say seemingly because, at the top of the POPLA assessment and decision, it states: 'Decision: Successful'.

Successful what? Appeal against the ticket, or appeal in favour of it, was successful? Shocking.

At least I have that notice from POPLA, so if P Eye do pursue this, they will have some fun overcoming that, I assume?

Interestingly, Mr T told me that he'd submitted 3 appeals on similar grounds that same day and the other 2 had been successful on the grounds of the 10 minute grace period - ie gone against P Eye.

I haven't heard from P Eye yet, but I'm sure I will. What should I do? Continue to ask Mr T for a copy of the appeal paperwork? Contact POPLA directly and complain about their inability to read/follow the BPA guidance on grace periods? Sell my car and buy a camel (the last one is tempting - it's a diesel)?

Any further advice from you real experts (who I should have consulted earlier) greatly appreciated...