Making a claim against Council

[Sputnik21]

I want to make a small claim against my local council. I had my car parked in a blue badge place in a Council car park in local council run gardens which has also 2 art galleries a café and a childrens play group. On returning to my car the window was smashed in and bag stolen from under the drivers seat. There is no warning sign about liability that there is in every other car park and no CCTV or security despite the obvious increased risk due to the gallery etc. I lost some significant items and believe the council are negligent for lack of security, CCTV and liability signage especially as it has happened at least twice before. Any advice please? My main concern is that I could be liable for their costs if I lose?

[des8]

Re: Making a claim against Council

Hi and welcome.

Do you believe that the lack of (unnecessary?) disclaimer notices makes the council liable for the actions of a third party?

There may have been a contract between you (was this a paid for car park?) in which case tort law does not apply.

[paulajayne]

Re: Making a claim against Council

Negligence must lie mainly with you for not either taking the bag with you, or for not locking it in the boot.

IMHO a claim against the car park / parking space owner will fail.

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Making a claim against Council

I think the answers are spot on here. I cannot conceive, in any way, how you can imagine that lack of disclaimer notices, lack of CCTV and your alleged 'lack of security' will lead to the council having any liability for your loss. You also mention that this has happened at least twice before so that suggests you knew it may be unsafe yet you continued to leave items of value in your car and presumably on show. And I cannot see why you feel that the presence of an art gallery brings increased risk.

I assume that this was free parking? Do you have insurance on your motor policy to cover personal effects within the car? Have you claimed on your motor policy for the vandalised window? Have you actually spoken to the local authority concerned?

Sorry to sound negative but leaving 'significant items' in a car and therefore out of your safe control is a risk that should not sensibly be taken. And lastly, is it possible that your car was targeted because you left these items in it? It seems to me that the smashing of a window is quite a risk unless there is value in the theft.

[Sputnik21]

Re: Making a claim against Council

Not a helpful reply. If you had read my post you would have noted I left bag under the seat, it was not in view at all. In addition my car doesn't have a boot.

[Sputnik21]

Re: Making a claim against Council

In fact I was told by an employee at the gallery that cars had been targeted before AFTER I reported what had happened to me. And YES I had insurance but possessions are only covered up to £100. The insurance paid for the window less the excess. And Yes I have spoken to the Council and their insurers and already sent a letter before claim. My car wasn't targeted because I left "these items" in it. I left my bag which was hidden under the seat. Mostly because I have mobility issues following major cancer surgery and try to do my walk and shop in one trip rather than several. I cannot believe the number of unhelpful replies. I have had other advice from locals here who agree with me - most car parks have liability warning signs especially when the owners know their parks have been targeted. On this particular site there is a pre-school playgroup, two galleries and a café increasing the number of visitors and risk. My view is it is negligent not to warn visitors of the risk especially as the gardens provide cover for criminals to hide and watch for opportunities. On the basis there is a preschool playgroup there alone should be reason enough to have CCTV. Thanks for your helpful comments

[des8]

Re: Making a claim against Council

Sorry if the comments you received do not accord with your view.

The lack of a posting of a "disclaimer of liability" notice does not mean that the owner of the car park is automatically liable for damage caused by third parties.
If they are not prepared to meet your demands and you progress to court you will have to prove negligence and the lack of a contract.
Methinks you have a couple of hurdles to clear.
Good luck

[R0b]

Re: Making a claim against Council

Perhaps the unhelpful replies are because we think you cannot establish a claim against the council. Your claim will likely fall under negligence and/or occupiers liability, either of which requires you to prove that there was a duty by council, the council breached that duty and whether it was foreseeable. Even if you establish the duty owed and a breach of that duty then you will most likely fail on the foreseeability side.

From my understanding of your problem, you are essentially saying that all councils who provide car parks must provide secure car parks? When you park in a public car park there is that degree of risk where your car may be damaged or broken into and as Snoopy has said, you ought to be aware of that and you continued to park there. Therefore the council could argue that you contributed to that negligence if you took it to court.

The same principle applies if someone walks through a park and crosses a small river over wet stones, there is the risk that you could fall and injure yourself but you can't expect the local authority to be liable for those injuries when you ought to be aware of the risk in walking over them.

Just to add, the courts will also reject claims where it is going to cost unreasonable amounts and buts a bit of a burden on that particular party

[Sputnik21]

Re: Making a claim against Council

Thank you. Its tough because there were quite a few things in my bag that were special including a data stick with several chapters of a book I had been working on. I didn't back it up often because of the risk of plagiarism. I entered a writing competition once and had my unusual story 'stolen' - published a year after I entered in someone elses name but changed a bit. Also a necklace my son gave me for my birthday, diary, etc. Also the bag was well out of sight. I understand from the police there is a spate of such thefts recently and all the meters in the road outside the car park (I noticed since) have warning signs on them.

[Sputnik21]

Re: Making a claim against Council

Its unhelpful when people bark back saying I left a bag on view when I had already said I didn't. I don't believe that when parking in a public car park I accept that there is a risk my car will be broken into in broad daylight, at lunchtime, right outside a café and art gallery. I think the presence of the gallery, café and potentially the crèche and the visitors it is aiming to attract, is likely equally to attract criminals. Surely after the first two thefts like mine, a risk assessment should have been carried out and warning notices put up? But nothing was done.

[wales01man]

Re: Making a claim against Council

If the book was so important why leave it in the car and not copy it?
If you are sure the advice from here is wrong make a claim fist to the council and then to the court I cannot see what value you can put on a book partialy written by the way

[R0b]

Re: Making a claim against Council

We all appreciate it is frustrating, the posts are merely our own opinions and of course one person will have the view of another. Is it up to the council to put up notices about theft or the police? What if the council was not aware that many thefts were happening in that particular car park, how can you then hold the council responsible?

Personally, there is always the risk that a car may be broken into in a public car park, regardless of where it is parked or even if it was in a car park with CCTV, people will still do it whatever the time of day.

Ultimately, it is for the court to decide whether or not the council is liable, should you wish to take them to court and that choice is yours but as you can see from various responses on this thread, your chances don't look particularly great. That's not to say the judge wont agree with you and find in your favour, you just have to make the court believe that the council has satisfied the criteria of negligence.

[Sputnik21]

Re: Making a claim against Council

As previously stated with regard to copying- (does anyone absorb what is written here) - risk of plagiarism from personal experience. As regard value, well the effort it took and my time, eg months of work.

I already made a claim to the council, as previously stated and have spoken to them and their insurers, and sent a letter before claim. The question is about proving negligence and I also would like to know if anyone has any real knowledge or experience with small claims court and potential costs allocation should you lose.

[Sputnik21]

Re: Making a claim against Council

Thank you that's a helpful reply and I agree its a difficult one. I just feel with the increased events being held, the fact that the other council parks have liability notices, the fact that there are warning notices about thefts on all the meters in the road outside the park, yet nothing in this park in particular, that there is some degree of negligence particularly when it had happened there before. I would be very concerned that with a pre-school crèche there and no security or CCTV that there are clearly criminals skulking around in the bushes watching people. Thanks for your thoughtful reply though

[R0b]

Re: Making a claim against Council

The only costs you will lose is your application costs, but the judge does have discretion to award costs against where claimant's make vexatious claims / claims without merit and do not establish a cause of action (cause of action is showing how the council had a duty of care, breach that duty and the breach of such duties were not too remote).

You say you have made a claim but not quite clear whether a court claim has been issued already to the council