Newlyn dragged my car away

[Milo]

Re: Newlyn dragged my car away

Hello everyone.

I discover a great big yellow clamp adorning one of the front wheels. Undeterred, I tell the kids to go back inside, while I pick up my cordless angle grinder and proceed to free our transportation.

The reason why I was not too concerned was that a similar thing had happened a couple of years back, when I had an unpaid ticket. A letter was sent, informing me that a week later a bailiff will come to remove the car, so as a preemptive action, I changed the registration papers in my wife's name. When he arrived and threatened to remove the car, my wife simply informed him that it was her car, not mine. Although confused, being a nice enough man, he left the car alone and we never heard from him again. The lesson I was to learn today was not to rest on laurels, or to think that 2 bailiffs are the same. Also, that I should have read the last letter from the baillifs a bit more carefully, before trowing it away.

Upon returning from the school run, I take the car reg with my wife's details and sent it of to the DVLA., thinking that the Newlyn man will not return again for a few days.

I begun looking online for advice on what to do and a couple of hours went by. Next thing I know, my wife comes running in telling me that the car is being towed away.

I insist that he tells me why he removed a car that was not mine and he replies that it was due to a penalty charge that I had not paid last year and that as far as he was concerned the car was in my name. I tell him that the car belongs to my wife, therefore he can't take it, but he remains adamant that I should produce DVLA papers and insurance to prove it was her's. Ofc, with the papers in the post, I could not show him it was in her name and his early return didn't allow me enough time to stall while they arrived.

While searching the internet I discovered a temporary solution to the problem, while I am hoping to get some pro advice from other people that have gone this way before. I have sent the out of time declaration to TEC via email and I was told that the Council and Newlyn will be emailed right away and that the case will be put on hold.

In a few days time the car reg papers will have arrived and it will be in my wife's name. Her birthday had been on the 4th, while the bailiff turned up to clamp on the 5th. She was given the car as a birthday present the day before, so by rights it belongs to her. What would you advise me?

My opinion is that the bailiff man has made a few mistakes on the forms he left me and that I might be able to prove that he did not follow correct procedure:

But it is now my wife's car and she really wants it back.

I am sorry to be so critical but you have acted very foolishly indeed and your actions have been made worse by taking advice from the internet and submitting an Out of Time statutory declaration. Providing false information on an Out of Time witness statement is a serious matter and can result in proceedings for perjury.

It is a shame that the online advice did not inform you that goods belonging to a debtor become "bound' from the date that the enforcement agent received instructions and sent you a Notice of Enforcement. The effect of this being that you cannot sell, transfer or give away any goods belonging to you from that date (which in your case would have been approx 3 weeks before the vehicle had been taken).

You seem to have also made a mistake by not checking the enforcement agent register. The bailiff is certificated:

http://certificatedbailiffs.justice....earch=Kaminski

[R0b]

Re: Newlyn dragged my car away

[MENTION=30402]Milo[/MENTION]

It is a shame that the online advice did not inform you that goods belonging to a debtor become "bound' from the date that the enforcement agent received instructions and sent you a Notice of Enforcement. The effect of this being that you cannot sell, transfer or give away any goods belonging to you from that date (which in your case would have been approx 3 weeks before the vehicle had been taken).

Could you clarify this? It is my understanding that a notice of enforcement is simply to begin the process and notify the debtor that a bailiff has been instructed to collect the debt outstanding. Are you confusing this with a controlled goods agreement?

It is also my understanding that a debtor has the opportunity to pay the sums outstanding before the bailiff attends the premises. To say that all goods belonging to the debtor are essentially "frozen" from the notice of enforcement would be absurd because the debtor may wish to use some of those goods to sell and the repay the outstanding amount?! From what you are saying it is the equivalent of a freezing injunction which of course can only be granted by an order of the court.

[Milo]

Re: Newlyn dragged my car away

@Milo



Could you clarify this? It is my understanding that a notice of enforcement is simply to begin the process and notify the debtor that a bailiff has been instructed to collect the debt outstanding. Are you confusing this with a controlled goods agreement?

It is also my understanding that a debtor has the opportunity to pay the sums outstanding before the bailiff attends the premises. To say that all goods belonging to the debtor are essentially "frozen" from the notice of enforcement would be absurd because the debtor may wish to use some of those goods to sell and the repay the outstanding amount?!

From what you are saying it is the equivalent of a freezing injunction which of course can only be granted by an order of the court.

The legal position is as follows:

With the exception of exempt goods , the goods of the debtor become bound (and are liable to be taken control of and cannot be assigned or transferred) to another person etc from the following dates:


In the case of a High Court writ of control, the goods are bound from the time that the writ is received by the enforcement agent.


Where a warrant of control is issued by the county court or magistrates’ court, the goods are bound from the time it is received by the person to whom it is directed i.e. the enforcement agent.


Where there is no court writ or warrant required to effect control of goods, the goods are bound from the time when the notice of enforcement is given.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ods?view=plain



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...und?view=plain

[R0b]

Re: Newlyn dragged my car away

Thank you for the clarification.

I am curious though, how that can be enforced or maintained if the bailiff for example sends a notice of enforcement letter and the debtor then sells certain property which may or may not belong to another person, sell the goods in order to pay the outstanding debt.

How can a bailiff determine what is and isn't the debtor's goods before the have even attended the premises? It would be wrong surely to say that all of the goods in the debtor's property is bound by the writ because some of those goods may not be owned by the debtor but someone else within the house.

So to say that a High Court writ / warrant of execution binds the goods in the property would not always be correct. The only way I could see that happening if the goods are actually specified within the writ/warrant of execution.

Perhaps I'm reading the legislation wrong but in practice, I cannot see how that could work without the bailiff first attending the premises.

Edit: Forget the above, found the answer to my question

[PeacefulWarrior]

Re: Newlyn dragged my car away

[QUOTE=Milo;640423]I am sorry to be so critical but you have acted very foolishly indeed and your actions have been made worse by taking advice from the internet and submitting an Out of Time statutory declaration. Providing false information on an Out of Time witness statement is a serious matter and can result in proceedings for perjury.

It's OK to be critical, constructive criticism is always appreciated. Can you be a bit more specific, what action you see as 'foolish'? Also, why was it wrong to make an OTSD? The information provided in there was all correct.

I did check the same place you did, but the agent did not show as being registered. You must be doing something different that I don't know.

[PeacefulWarrior]

Re: Newlyn dragged my car away

Hi guys, here is the latest:
I received a letter from the court today, saying that the Witness Statement application has been refused. They also advise to use form N244 if I want to apply for a review. What is your experience, is it worth paying £255, or it would just be a waste of money?
I also called the pound where the bailiffs have taken the car and they said they charge £45 per day, therefore adding another £675 pounds on the £622 that the bailiffs want. So now the amount they want is more than the car is worth.
Does anyone know if we can sue the bailiffs for removing the car from a private car park? Or if there is a way of complain about the way they removed the car? Cheers, Michael

[ploddertom]

Re: Newlyn dragged my car away

I thought the car was on your own property - if so then it was removed legally. I wouldn't bother with the N244 as the chances are you would be throwing good money down the drain and there may be the possibility of you committing perjury. I honestly can't see your ruse with the change of ownership working, not only would any change of ownership have to predate the Notice of Enforcement but any Insurance or Road Tax would have to show the same. I'm sorry if this is not what you want to hear but is my take on things having read through this thread.

[ploddertom]

Re: Newlyn dragged my car away

Just so you are aware, yesterday a Court case was concluded where the Claimant had had his car removed in circumstances very similar to yours. He took the Council, Bailiff Co & Bailiff to Court, case was dismissed and he was ordered to pay costs - in this case £40k (Forty Thousand Pounds).