Criminal Damage Question in Secure Underground Parking

[Snoopy1948]

Hi all ....

I moved last year to a nice apartment block on the south coast and everyone is currently an owner/leaseholder although there are moves afoot ( now that all flats are sold ) to become shareholders in the freehold. Currently we are managed by a local management company.

WE enjoy secure underground parking on two levels accessed only by two car lifts that stand side by side. These lifts have 'concertina style' doors are becoming troublesome by their complicated control gear. However, this New Years Eve, someone exited the car park and drove quite fiercely into on of the doors, literally caving it in and, we suspect, decamping through the other available lift,.

NO one has come forward to put their hands up to this and we suspect that it may have been a guest with little knowledge of how the doors work, thinking they would open as approached ( in fact, you have to press a button and wait for clearance). The other theory is that, considering the day, alcohol may have played a part. However, everything is conjecture. AS leaseholders, we are all responsible for the charge to repair unless, as the managing agents state, there may be a case to claim under the buildings insurance. We suspect that as the doors are 'bespoke' and have to be built to suit, the cost will be considerable.

We do not currently have CCTV to monitor such incidents although now that is being discussed.

My question is can this be described as criminal damage, causing obvious damage and driving away with reporting it? How does it affect the situation as it remains private property? And should the managing agents be reporting the matter to the police as criminal damage, if in fact they can at all, bearing in mind that any claim on the block buildings insurance may require an incident report number?

We are even hearing discussion on parkers on the other basement floor, or even those that do not own a car or use their space, that they should not be held to account for the repair, but under the terms of the lease we understand that they have no argument.

All opinion welcome and thanks in advance!

[jaydee]

Re: Criminal Damage Question in Secure Underground Parking

Hi

This might assist you?

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/criminal_damage/#a03

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Criminal Damage Question in Secure Underground Parking

Appreciate the link.

It is making me wonder whether criminal damage has to be 'with intent' or some kind of premeditation behind it. I suspect that anyone causing severe accidental damage with a motor vehicle has a legal obligation to report and should therefore not drive away from it in this manner. But as it was on private property, would the police really have an interest, if only to log it for insurance purposes?

Any further input would be appreciated .....

[wales01man]

Re: Criminal Damage Question in Secure Underground Parking

Has anyone contacted the Police without knowing or having evidence might be difficult claiming from insurance.
You agreement on repairs to the building should be clear in what has to be paid and by who problem being it may not mention Criminal damage

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Criminal Damage Question in Secure Underground Parking

No police contact as far as I know but this is a regular occurrence because sad to say, not every resident approaches the car lift doors with sufficient caution so we ( the residents/leaseholders ) need to define the situation as we could have a constant claim on the service charge for other people's stupidness.

Does anyone know if the RTA applies to damage caused by an insured vehicle on private property such as this?

[wales01man]

Re: Criminal Damage Question in Secure Underground Parking

What part of the RTA?

If there is damage to the doors there must be damage to the car that hit them anyone with damaged car been seen ?

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Criminal Damage Question in Secure Underground Parking

The doors are lightweight sliding doors and can be damaged very easily with, I suspect, very little damage to the car that hit it. The offending car cannot be identified in any way and we suspect it may have been a guest of a resident. Unless someone puts their hands up to this, we currently have no way of identifying the offender. This may change as we are currently discussing CCTV to monitor the car lifts. But again I ask, if a driver damages property ( albeit on our private property/underground car park ) does he/she have a legal obligation under RTA rules to report it? And should our managing agents report this to the police ( even though they will take no further action ) as a precursor to investigating if the damage is an insurable event under their buildings insurance? This type of damage is repetitive and costing the leaseholders thousands of pounds in repair costs over the last 12 months.

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Criminal Damage Question in Secure Underground Parking

Hi .. just to update my thread here, I emailed Sussex Police this evening ( on their non emergency advice email address ) and this was the content of their reply :

Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear that this person has not felt honest enough to own their error.
In relation to points raised - as, from what I understand of your description, this is in fact a private gated carpark, then no, this would not be a matter for police to record as a road traffic act breach of section 170. That would only apply if the carpark was in fact open to the public and traffic were entering direct from the road.
Nor would this be considered as criminal damage. It is a collision, and does not appear that it has been done either wilfully or with any intent. There can be a criminal element to damage caused if the act was deemed particularly reckless i.e. I hit golf balls towards your house, and although it was not my intent to smash your window, I could have reasonably expected this might happen and therefore would be accountable. Driving round too close to doors, clipping them (and it appears more than one person has done this) and hence accidentally causing the damage would not constitute.
Given the costs are thousands, I would certainly suggest CCTV as an option as it may act as a deterrent to poor driving at the very least

Have to say, incredibly impressed with the speed of this response, within 15 minutes of emailing and at this time of morning, around 00.45 am!

It seems therefore that we need CCTV to monitor future collisions but I have begged the question that if there is no breach of the RTA, how would we fare claiming against the drivers motor insurance if they failed or refused to report the incident? Never rains but it pours ... :doggieyes:

[des8]

Re: Criminal Damage Question in Secure Underground Parking

Firstly you can't claim against third party insurers
Only the insured can make a claim (for most types of insurance anyway!)
You need to identify the culprit and claim against him.
It is for him to either pass the claim to his insurers or deal with it himself
Doesn't the buildings insurance include accidental cover, which would include collision damage, or collision damage as a separate add on?

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Criminal Damage Question in Secure Underground Parking

As for the building insurance covering such vehicle impact, we are waiting on the outcome of the managing agents making a claim on that ... so we shall see. Your point about not being able to claim against third party insurers is accepted and that's why we have made every effort to identify the offender. But even so, they still need to inform their own insurance company with estimated repair costs for the claim to proceed. I guess when you have the option to decamp with no witnesses around, people will simply so that. However, we are currently negotiating CCTV ( with internet monitoring ) to be deployed in and around each car lift so hopefully future events will be subject to record.

Even so, without the offender ( who can be offered CCTV evidence against him or her ) agreeing to forward the claim ( with admittance ) to his insurance company, we may still be on difficult ground.