suing the DWP

[perplexed52]

Hi, new member, first post. I run a business & for years the dwp have paid invoices in full for supporting one of their clients. The last batch of invoices they paid less £720.00. No explanation. I queried it. They said previous invoices had been overpaid & stated the revised (lower) hourly rate the client had been awarded. I replied they had always paid in excess of the client's hourly rate, as we charged VAT on top. They refused to give a manager's name and provided a royal mail generic sorting address.

I got on LinkedIn, found the head of the ATW (Access To Work) programme and emailed him. Got the same reply & that their contract is with their client (but they've always remitted my company without question). Sent them a solicitors letter threatening action. They said they were waiting for further action. I then submitted a claim with money online, using the address given on the bottom of the email sent by the Head of ATW's delegate.

Their response? "DWP is part of the Crown. Therefore pursuant to practice direction 7 E (5) (a) thr claimant was not entitled to issue the clan via menu claims online. The claim should therefore be struck out without notice. Please also not that even if the claimant had issued under the correct provisions, the claim form has nt been validly served as the claimant has not used the correct address for service in accordance with the crown proceeding act 1947.

We therefore intend to take no further action in respect of this matter. In the event that the claimant obtains default judgment (which he is clearly not entitled to), we will apply to the court to have the judgment set aside and seek recovery of our costs from the claimant."

I'm just asking for opinions here. Legal advice is in excess of £100 per hour. I was intending to wind up the company. The tone of their legal department's cover letter is sarcastic and suggests I should at least correctly address correspondence before incurring court costs. Yet they're so veiled they refuse to provide information probably as a deterrent to pursuing monies owed. Yes, they're correct in pointing out that their contract is with their client and not my small company. Yet, what's implicit in them remitting (in full, over numerous years) my company for services provided to their client, that custom and practice suggests that our invoices would be honoured like all the others.

It seems unfair. No communication, no explanation, they just do what they want and expect you to take it.

Any idea would be gratefully received.
Thanks
T

[perplexed52]

Re: suing the DWP

Ps I've just looked online and on the justice.gov.uk site under Practice Direction 7E there is no such section (5) (a) so it's reading like it's a bluff.

[Kati]

Re: suing the DWP

Ps I've just looked online and on the justice.gov.uk site under Practice Direction 7E there is no such section (5) (a) so it's reading like it's a bluff.

They might mean PD 7E section 4 (5)(a)?? - http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...t07/pd_part07e

4 A claim may be started using Money Claim Online if it meets all the following conditions –

(1) the only remedy claimed is a specified amount of money –

(a) less than £100,000 (excluding any interest or costs claimed); and

(b) in sterling;

(2) the procedure under Part 7 is used;

(3) the claimant is not –

(a) a child or protected party; or

(b) funded by the Legal Services Commission;

(3A) the claimant’s address for service is within the United Kingdom;

(4) the claim is against –

(a) a single defendant; or

(b) two defendants, if the claim is for a single amount against each of them;

(5) the defendant is not –

(a) the Crown; or

(b) a person known to be a child or protected party; and

(6) the defendant’s address for service is within England and Wales.

(‘Protected party’ has the same meaning as in rule 21.1(2).)

[Amethyst]

Re: suing the DWP

Try 7E 4 (5a)

[Amethyst]

Re: suing the DWP

lol, or what Kati said ( in a more useful manner )

[nemesis45]

Re: suing the DWP

That's the one Kati!

nem

[Amethyst]

Re: suing the DWP

Which address did you make the claim against ?

DWP Litigation Division.
Caxton House
Tothill Street
London
SW1H 9NA

[perplexed52]

Re: suing the DWP

Thanks Kati, Amethyst, Nemesis et al (just to cover anyone else who replies). Yes, looks like their solicitor cannot quote a practice direction correctly. I didn't have their litigation department address at the time - it wasn't provided. So, basically, it's futile.
Appreciate the responses and info. I'll deduct the amount from the corporation tax if I can't sue them.

[Kati]

Re: suing the DWP

Could you re-issue the claim? If you can't use MCOL do it the 'old-fashioned' way and use the litigation address for service??

[Amethyst]

Re: suing the DWP

It's not futile at all. Just need to explore other avenues.

You have an agreement between your company and the access to work programme ? You invoice them for payment for things you do / provide for their client.... they have reduced how much they pay you without any consultation or discussion or notice or reason seemingly ? Have you been through the formal complaints process ?

Is it simply the VAT element they haven't paid ?

[perplexed52]

Re: suing the DWP

Hi Kati & Amethyst, I need to get my head around the reply. On re-reading, it does say issuing a claim via money claim online is not valid & their solicitor's covering letter uses the same (lame) response: there's no agreement/contract between my company and dwp therefore no basis to recover money from them. What I'd argue is that what has been implicit in them remitting their client's claim for Access To Work funds to be paid to my company for a number of years means there's a financial arrangement between them and my company.

So, I could possibly reissue it. I first need to read up on their protected status. Amethyst - you've understood the situation & it's yes to almost all your questions: providing interpreting services to a client. Client's hourly rate £45 per hr including travel, parking, interpreter(s) fee - usually £30 per hour - & agency fee. Add VAT the hourly rate goes up to £54 per hour. They reduced client's hourly rate to £40 late last year, but still paid our requested amount in Feb '15. They're now calling it an overpayment. There was no consultation , no correspondence (they say correspondence is with clients not providers). Invoices are made out to client and rather than client paying the agency & being out of pocket until DWP reimburses them under the ATW programme, DWP remits us directly.

[perplexed52]

Re: suing the DWP

Own fault for leaving the invoices until the 6 month deadline/within ATW rules otherwise it would've been flagged up sooner, but the £720 underpayment is made up of 6 months' worth of invoices paid at £40.00. We'd already stopped working with employed ATW claimants as they were under pressure to include VAT in the hourly rate (charging them £35.00 per hr, interpreters charge £30, & company pays travel separately). Employer would pay us & then claim from ATW but it just wasn't financially viable. The claim is with a self-employed client. Just thought I'd add clarifying info

[stevemLS]

Re: suing the DWP

Afraid I think the DWP are absolutely right, there is no contract between you and they. The fact that they have for some time paid the invoices direct is an administrative convenience which essentially counts for nothing.

[perplexed52]

Re: suing the DWP

Afraid I think the DWP are absolutely right, there is no contract between you and they. The fact that they have for some time paid the invoices direct is an administrative convenience which essentially counts for nothing.

Thanks for contributing, Steve. I think while they're right regarding their relationship with their client, what has been implicit cannot be written off by administrative convenience, in my opinion. They've accepted our fees and paid without dispute until now.