Hi - New member needing advice

[mikeeb1974]

Hi everyone, just been reading all the great posts and advice many people have been getting on this website.

I have recently been a victim of bailiffs, enforcing a PCN. I was not aware of this until I received a letter from Jacobs informing me that an enforcement officer was due to visit unless I paid up.....

After further investigation and contacting Northampton, this was indeed a live claim and not a joke.....

As all the court papers and correspondence had gone to my previous address, I was totally unaware of this matter. After explaining this to the court I filed a "out of time witness statement". The local government opposed this and totally disregarded my statement of truth and a court minion upheld the claim. I spoke to Jacobs to let them know I was seeking further legal advice - in the meantime the enforcement officers came at 6am and clamped my car.

I am totally baffled by this, as how can you be taken to court without your knowledge and then enforcement action taken against you. Surly this contravenes article 6 of European Convention of human rights "Audi altaram Partem" violating one of the basic components of natural justice.

I have done a little more research on this matter and there have been a number of violations and I wish to take legal action against the local council. Can anyone advise me on constructing a skeleton legal argument

Cheers

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

Hi and welcome
[MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] should be able to help. :yo:

[stevemLS]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

What do you want to take action against the council for?

You don't need a skeleton to issue proceedings, that is normally submitted shortly before a hearing.

You need to draft your particulars of claim first.

(Court rules provide that service on the last known address is good service, it does not contravene Art 6 - if you can prove you had no knowledge of the proceedings you should be able to get the judgment set aside, you need to make a formal application for this though, not just lodge a witness statement).

[mikeeb1974]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

Hi Mystery1

Good to hear from you..:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[mystery1]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

If it's a council ticket i'm afraid i don't know anything about them nor bailiffs.

M1

[mikeeb1974]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

Hi stevemLS,

Thanks for replying so soon. I want to take action against the council to get the money back that the bailiffs extorted from me. I have a letter draughted to my local council, I would just like someone to have a look over it and put it in a more suitable manner. Should I post it on here?

I am totally new to legal proceedings - but I find it very difficult to believe that you can be taken to court without your knowledge.

Thanks for your help and advice anyway

Cheers

[stevemLS]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

Hi, by all means post your letter up and no doubt people will make suggestions.

However, if your main complaint is that the court proceedings were posted to your previous address, as I mentioned last known address is fine. Did you update DVLA promptly when you moved? Have you got dates of move and of notification? What was the date on the claim form and when was judgment made.

[mikeeb1974]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

Here is a copy of the letter I wish to send, obviously it is not ready yet as it needs refining and putting in a more professional manner - does anyone have any comments / suggestions. Many thanks...................

“This letter sets out the information that the enclosed Pre-action Protocol requires me to send you. You are required to complete and return the reply form at the end of this letter so that I may know your response to my claim. If you fail to do so, and we are forced to start proceedings for the money you owe, the court could order you to pay any additional court costs and/or legal fees which I unnecessarily incur as a result. The Civil Procedure Rules require that, before starting court proceedings, the parties should (1) exchange information about the claim and the defence to the claim (if there is one) and (2) try to settle the matter without going to court. This claim is governed by the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims which is enclosed with this letter and is also available at

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...civil/protocol.

A successful court claim against you will normally add court costs to the debt and possibly legal and/or other fees as well.

I refer to the above mentioned PCN and have recently been visited by your enforcement agents (Jacobs) on 24^th September 2015. Who extorted against my will £422 that was to pay for my rent and food for the month.

I tried in vain on many occasions to call and speak to a representative to discuss this matter, only to be re-buffed by your customer service representatives on xxxxxx. As you gave no other contact details – there could (and was not) any meaningful representations made to your organisation.

As I detailed in my “out of time witness statement” (TE9) I was not at the address you sent the NTO and all other correspondence. You did not accept this statement of truth and carried on enforcement action. Regardless of however the situation occurred, the fact of the matter is that I was not party to the legal process. By continuing your enforcement action after you knew that I was not party to the legal process, you therefore acted intentionally and with flagrant disregard for my basic human rights. The UK is a signatory to the European Convention on Human rights and article 6 of that convention is “right to a fair trial”. As I was not party to the legal process I was not afforded that privilege.
Also you abused the Civil Procedure Rules 75.7(7) that outline the procedure that must be followed if a bailiff identifies a new address. The relevant part of this rule is that if a local authority wishes to continue to enforce the warrant it must apply to the Traffic Enforcement Centre to have the warrant reissued to the new address.

Under CPR 36.16 I request that you send me a copy of the original “warrant of Control” and a copy of the new “warrant of control” with my present address on.

I also claim that due to your disregard of the legal process by using enforcement officers, you intentionally caused emotional distress.
When a bailiff acts on a liability order issued by a Magistrates Court or on a Warrant of Execution issued by the Traffic Enforcement Centre then they are acting as officers of the local authority, not the court.

The enforcement officer “clamped my car” at 6am in the morning when there were no offices open or any other avenue open to me to discuss this matter with. As the officer managed to trace me at my new address – then obviously they have at their disposal basic knowledge in how to obtain information. This car was my vehicle for work and as a self employed delivery book driver, not having the use of my car would have caused m extreme hardship. A quick check on my number plate (available on numerous web sites) would have given the officer knowledge that the car was on hire purchase/finance and the value of this car. As the car was in excess of the £1350 limit imposed by Reg 4 on The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013, then this was also professional negligence.
Regulation 4:
Exempt goods

4.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2) and to regulation 5, the following goods of the debtor are exempt goods—
(a)items or equipment (for example, tools, books, telephones, computer equipment and vehicles) which are necessary for use personally by the debtor in the debtor’s employment, business, trade, profession, study or education, except that in any case the aggregate value of the items or equipment to which this exemption is applied shall not exceed £1,350;

As you are a government officer, you should be aware of -Taking control of goods: National standards 2014
31. Enforcement agents must not seek to enforce the recovery of fees where an enforcement power has ceased to be exercisable.
40. Enforcement agencies must ensure that all employees, contractors and agents will at all times act within the scope of current legislation, for example The Companies Act, HMRC provisions, Data Protection, Health and Safety, Equality, and Human Rights Act etc, and have an appropriate knowledge and understanding of it and be aware of any statutory obligations and provide relevant training.
62. Enforcement agents must only take goods in accordance with the appropriate regulations or statute. In addition creditors may agree other restrictions with agents acting on their behalf.
66. Enforcement agents should take all reasonable steps to satisfy themselves that the value of the goods taken into control to cover the sum outstanding is proportional to the value of the debt and fees owed

As you were aware of me not being party to the legal proceedings, you breached para 40 of the National standards as you should be aware of the Human Rights Act. As the debt was only £187, taking control of a £3000+ car was not proportional to the value of the debt, breaching para 66.
As any “man on the street” can use a text service (hundreds on the web) and registration number to find if a car has any outstanding debt on it. Your officer breached para 63 and regulation 4: by not acting in accordance with the appropriate statute.
As the bailiff knew I was seeking further legal advice (he told me he had read the file) and “chose” to ignore this and carried on enforcement action there was an intentional disregard for my situation and acted recklessly knowing this would cause distress, therefore there was an “Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress”. The bailiff knew I had no other cause of redress and was therefore in a position of power, using coercive powers. He had a fiduciary duty towards me and so acted in a professionally negligent way.
I will not take any further legal action should you refund me the cost of your officers negligent actions and costs involved in pursuing this claim. Please refund me £422 (+ £200 legal research) at your earliest convenience. Should you ignore this letter and matters proceed to court, then costs and damages will substantially increase
regards

[wales01man]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

If you did not update the DVLA of change of address at the tie the original ticket was written they are in the right sending everything to the old address which means you have no cause for action in reclaiming money.
I do not support the Bailiff system but if they have done this by the book you lose they win

[stevemLS]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

Until you answer the questions about the various dates, there is not much point looking at the letter.

Having said that, much of it is misconceived, in my view. You won't be able to claim random amounts for "legal research" and as this would be limited to £422 it would be allocated to the small claims track and you wouldn't be able to recover costs other than the court fees and, potentially, witness expenses.

I'm not going to go any further until you have given us the chronology.

Best wishes.

[mikeeb1974]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

I moved into my new property in February 2014 and I bought a new car whilst at my previous address. I took delivery a couple of days before we moved and the car company registered the car. I thought the company would use my new address on the V5 but they didnt and I forgot to check this in the throws of moving house, it was only when I received a bailifs letter that I realised the DVLA had my old address on the V5. The DVLA did however have my new address on my driving licence but obviously expecting a government department to put 2 and 2 together was a little too much,,,,,

The original parking offence happened in November 2014 - but I did not have a ticket and knew nothing about this util I got a bailiffs letter.

However, disregarding how or why this happened is not my beef...

My main grievance is with the justice system. I have no problem with paying the parking ticket, if I had known about it. By the time I was aware of it the legal system had already dispensed justice. I cannot and will not accept that you can be taken to court without your knowledge. Once the court and local council was aware there had been a mistake - then surely the process should start again with the correct information.

If a person is not aware of being taken to court - then that violates one of the principles of natural justice. "Let the other side be heard" If I have no part in the legal process then I have not had a "fair trial"

Is this not correct

I would welcome your comments.......

[stevemLS]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

OK, you might be able to get the judgement set aside on the basis that you knew nothing of the proceedings.

Personally I doubt whether that application would be successful as to do so you must act promptly AND show that you have a reasonable chance of defending the claim.

I am afraid I don't think your arguments stand up to scrutiny.

Licence holders addresses at DVLA are not connected at all to registered keepers addresses.

As far as the law is concerned, you had your opportunity to be heard, it is not the fault of the justice system that you failed to comply with your legal obligation to notify the DVLA of your change of address. (Regulation 18 Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002).

[R0b]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

You don't appear to have stated whether or not the PCN was done legally and validly? StevemLS is correct in that service of the claim form can be the last address which is known by the claimant under CPR Part 6 as below.

1. Individual	Usual or last known residence.

despite you failing to notify the DVLA of your change of address, you could still apply to have the judgement set aside at the cost of £155, provided you have a real prospect of defending the claim - judgment will be set aside and then a new hearing will generally be set.

Arguing the right to a fair trial will get you absolutely nowhere on this matter. It is perfectly reasonable for a claimant to conduct a reasonable search on you to find out your last known address whether that be through electoral records or the DVLA or some other means, they should not be expected to carry out an extensive search to ensure that you are living at a particular address.

You argue that you didn't receive the claim, and the council will respond by saying why didn't you use the mail forwarding service to your new address, if you had done so then you wouldn't have been in this predicament!

you might feel hard done by it but as i've said above, providing you have a good prospect of defending the matter, make an application to set aside albeit at your own expense.

[mikeeb1974]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

You don't think my arguments stand up to scrutiny??? What on earth are you talking about, the basic facts of the matter is that I knew nothing about court proceedings that were going ahead without my knowledge - how can you say I had my opportunity to be heard. Either I knew about it or I didnt.... there is no argument. However it happened it is irrelevant in my eyes - but obviously the law only works for those who work in legal circles..

So what you are saying is that I can take you to court without your knowledge ( i will invent an address) - under a spurious claim - it does not matter if it is true as I know you will not be there to defend yourself, then when you dont respond to my claim. I will get a judgement against, hire a collections firm - then find out where you live and enforce the judgement. All the time you are unaware of this and have no recourse

This is bullshit and I will not accept this can happen in the justice system in the UK - maybe in a 3rd world country or dictatorship

Thanks for your less than helpful advice - instead of quoting road traffic regulations - how about letting me know about a N244

[wales01man]

Re: Hi - New member needing advice

If your not satisfied with the advice which states the facts about your case in the sense of DVLA regulations court actions and Baliffs you have a slim chance of getting your money back not informing the DVLA of change of address is the reason you never knew about this the law allows a claim to be sent to your last known address.

The DVLA do not link addresses and the Courts do not check they are acting against someone at their address other than the one the paperwork states is yours