Parking eye court action

[Elsiebee]

Hi everyone - another parking query I'm afraid but I'd be really grateful for any help.

Parking eye are taking me to court for an unpaid 'charge'. My defence is that I was not in contract because I didn't agree to a contract, didn't see the signs. I also argued that there was no loss to anyone because the carpark is hardly used (2 out of the 3 retail units have gone out of business on the retail park where I parked) and my parking there didn't cost anyone anything. The signs at the carpark are about 8 feet off the ground and buried deep in bushes. The small print is illegible and signs are black and white. Because the car park was virtually empty I had no need to drive around looking for a space and only had to drive past one sign (which doesn't actually state the charge) to park.

They have rejected my defence, saying that there is a contract because I SHOULD have seen the signs and that there is a loss: the money they have spent pursuing me for the charge. They also say that if I want to claim that the charge is punitive and not a genuine pre-estimate of costs then the onus is on me to prove it.

My questions are:
1. can Parking eye reasonably charge me for the everyday management costs of this car park? They seem to be suggesting that costs such as maintaining signage and cameras are relevant, whereas I would argue that those costs are the same whether or not a "contract" is breached. The only costs that my "breach of contract" has caused is the cost of producing and sending 3 standard automated letters, that I never asked them to send me. The extra £65 " solicitor fee" seems steep too for what is standard letter, and I have not coerced them into pursuing me for money. Should I prepare my own pre-estimate of costs for the court based on what I believe it would cost to send three letters?

2. Can they claim breach of contract if I didn't know I was in contract, had no input into the wording of the contract and didn't agree to be in contract? I also feel that since their entire business plan is based on people breaching a "contract" it is very much in their interests to encourage a breach of contract in any way that they can.

3. If they do win, will I get a CCJ against me? Can they suddenly hit me with £1000s worth of additional charges out of the blue?


Any advice gratefully received.
Thanks

[wales01man]

Re: Parking eye court action

To question 3 Yes unless you defend what are the thousands of pounds of additional charges.
Don't rush into anything until you get advice on here on how to see this off

[Elsiebee]

Re: Parking eye court action

Thanks for replying St Bernard.
None of their correspondence has mentioned any additional charges or even hinted that there may be extra costs. They are after £165 at the moment: £100 for the parking and £65 for solicitor's fees.
I received a court letter this morning which mentioned mediation before the case goes to court. Not sure whether to take this up or just go to court and defend.

[mystery1]

Re: Parking eye court action

Hi everyone - another parking query I'm afraid but I'd be really grateful for any help.

Parking eye are taking me to court for an unpaid 'charge'. My defence is that I was not in contract because I didn't agree to a contract, didn't see the signs. I also argued that there was no loss to anyone because the carpark is hardly used (2 out of the 3 retail units have gone out of business on the retail park where I parked) and my parking there didn't cost anyone anything. The signs at the carpark are about 8 feet off the ground and buried deep in bushes. The small print is illegible and signs are black and white. Because the car park was virtually empty I had no need to drive around looking for a space and only had to drive past one sign (which doesn't actually state the charge) to park.

They have rejected my defence, saying that there is a contract because I SHOULD have seen the signs and that there is a loss: the money they have spent pursuing me for the charge. They also say that if I want to claim that the charge is punitive and not a genuine pre-estimate of costs then the onus is on me to prove it.

My questions are:
1. can Parking eye reasonably charge me for the everyday management costs of this car park? They seem to be suggesting that costs such as maintaining signage and cameras are relevant, whereas I would argue that those costs are the same whether or not a "contract" is breached. The only costs that my "breach of contract" has caused is the cost of producing and sending 3 standard automated letters, that I never asked them to send me. The extra £65 " solicitor fee" seems steep too for what is standard letter, and I have not coerced them into pursuing me for money. Should I prepare my own pre-estimate of costs for the court based on what I believe it would cost to send three letters?

2. Can they claim breach of contract if I didn't know I was in contract, had no input into the wording of the contract and didn't agree to be in contract? I also feel that since their entire business plan is based on people breaching a "contract" it is very much in their interests to encourage a breach of contract in any way that they can.

3. If they do win, will I get a CCJ against me? Can they suddenly hit me with £1000s worth of additional charges out of the blue?


Any advice gratefully received.
Thanks

Start from the beginning.

You have a court claim issued against you.

You have entered a defence in the court system ?

What stage are you at ?

Get pics and video of the signing issue.

M1

[Elsiebee]

Re: Parking eye court action

Thank you for taking time to reply.
Parking eye wrote three letters (I received only two of them). I ignored all of them until I received a letter saying that they were pursuing the payment through the courts. I then issued a defence through the court. My defence was that I was not in a contract as I had not seen the signs, and that the fee was punitive since the £165 was disproportionate to the "offence".
Parking eye then sent me a 36 page letter rejecting my defence. They even went so far as to suggest it wouldn't be admissible because I had used a template letter I found on a forum, which I adapted to my situation. They included many chunks of court transcript that they say back up their claim, but a lot of it was to do with ticketed car parks and some was nothing to do with parking at all. I felt they were trying to intimidate me by using a lot of legal speak that they knew I wouldn't understand.
This morning I received a letter from Northampton County Court "Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track". Also enclosed was a "small claims directions questionnaire" which I have to return by 24th March if I think the small claims track is not appropriate for this action.

I intend to get some photographs of the signage as you suggest. There is plenty of it and it is not obscured, but it is situated in the middle of a large bed of shrubs so that the signs are about 3 feet away from the path and about 8 feet off the ground. Not easy but not impossible to read. Also the way I entered the car park I wouldn't have passed any of the signs that outline the charge. They say that the onus is on me to spot the signs as a responsible driver. I would argue that if you really want someone to see and read a sign you would make it bigger, brighter and generally easier to spot.
I asked them to provide proof that the signs were there on the date of the "offence", but they didn't provide this. I asked for their solicitor's details and they haven't provided this either.

I am getting worried about extra costs, CCJs etc, but I'm also furious that they are trying to get £165 off me for nothing. I was attending a business meeting on the site which went on for a few hours. Clearly I wouldn't have parked there if I had known about the charge. Is there any value in contacting the landowner as I was visiting one of his/her tenants at the time?
Thanks again for you time
Elisebee

[Elsiebee]

Re: Parking eye court action

I also received a mediation service form with the letter I received today. Is there any value in seeking mediation or will this make matters worse (I might be persuaded to pay £15 for the cost of their letters, but not much more so I didn't think it wold be worth doing mediation as it might seem like an admission or something!)

[mystery1]

Re: Parking eye court action

If you lose in court but pay within 28 days the details are scrubbed (to all intents and purposes this means no ccj).

If you see this through and lose in court it'd cost you £200 at most in total, not including any costs of printing etc that you do.

Mediation won't work. I would still do it though. They'll ask for more than you'll offer and the process goes on.

If you go to court and your defence is that you did not see the signs, you might lose. If Parking Eye show that a normal person would have seen them then that is not good for you.

However if you change tack, or supplement your argument, with attacks on the right of the claimant and indeed if it's is the correct climant you'll have more success.

Read these to see what i mean.

http://parking-prankster.com/case-law.html

Sharma, Gardam, Somerfield (appeal),Clarke, Gosnold and Collins-Daniel. This will balance the shite Parking Eye sent you, most of which was ages ago whereas these are more recent.

M1

[Elsiebee]

Re: Parking eye court action

Thanks for the advice. I'll go through the mediation process and see what happens but I'll be very surprised if I get anywhere with that.
Parking Eye have quoted a few very recent cases in their most recent letter to me (August, November and December 2013). Interestingly they don't actually say whether or not they won these, just snippets of what the judge said.
I'll check out those links you suggested too.
I'd rather pay £200 knowing I put up a fight than cave in and pay £165.
The one good thing about this whole debacle is finding out that there are people around who are prepared to spend their time for free helping people like me out.
So, thanks again.
Elsiebee

[mystery1]

Re: Parking eye court action

All Transcripts.pdf

This is some early Parking eye wins which will hopefully give you some pointersas what not to do (and obviously some massive hints at what to do as well)

There is a "test case" in Cambridge on Friday which could have major consequences or at least show how to present your case.

M1

[Elsiebee]

Re: Parking eye court action

I'll be really interested to see what happens on Friday in the case. At the moment it seems the best idea is to question their right to claim the money, but I'm still not clear how to do this. I have also heard that the parking company often send people who don't work directly for them and that judges take a dim view of this. Am I allowed to question their representative's right to be there? Also, can I have this tried nearer to my home as Northampton is over a hundred miles away? Can I choose whichever court I like? I was thinking if I go for a court where they have lost I'll have more chance.

[mystery1]

Re: Parking eye court action

Northampton is just the online handling place. The claim will be allocated to your nearest court.

They use LPC law and that's fine.

Just wait for the moment unless you hear from the court.

M1

[MrNye]

Re: Parking eye court action

Hi Elsiebee, I'm in the same boat as you, see http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...e-Court-threat .

I'm interested to know, was this in a retail park?

I hope all goes well

[Elsiebee]

Re: Parking eye court action

Hi there
I decided to apply for the mediation but PE said they didn't want to go through mediation, so I guess they think they have a good, winnable case against me.

I have read about witness statements on these forums. When and how should I do a witness statement? Can I include things that weren't in my original defence?

At the moment I feel like David against Goliath as I have little understanding of the law and they have all the might of their legal team behind them!!
Thanks
LCB

[Elsiebee]

Re: Parking eye court action

Hi Mr Nye
How are you getting on?
I was in a retail park and I totally did overstay the 2 hours. Had no clue it was even restricted and had a perfectly legit reason for being there.
I have submitted a defence and applied for the court's mediation service, but PE have refused. They don't want to mediate and will see me in court (tremble)!

LCB

[mystery1]

Re: Parking eye court action

When the court allocates to your local court you should be told when the deadline is for submitting anything you seek to rely upon. Usually 14 days before the hearing is the cut off.

M1