county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP please!

[SHush007]

Hi all- would like some advice please on yet another Parking Eye issue!!

2 post-October 1st 2012 - parking infringements of + 16 minutes and + 50 minutes from free 2 hour period - we had previous tickets but had ignored all invoices etc due to previous postings on other forums (moneysavingexpert) - we also happened to move house and hadn't registered car at new address as it was scrapped in Jan 2013. Parking Eye kept sending comms to old address and then finally send a county court claim August 26 - we missed the deadline by which to respond to the court (9th September 2013) - just called court to find out what we could do and they said that parking eye had not filed any CCJ yet and to submit defence form (if that is what we want to do) asap.

Question is why had parking eye not taken it further yet? Is this just another threat? What should we put on the defence form - they are trying to claim £330 for two infringements - not sure why this amount is being claimed - I had to write to parking eye to get the claim number as old house tenants claimed they put in post to us (after opening to let us know what was in it)- they thanked me for getting in touch - I asked them to extend time (no reply yet) and to ask for comms to be resent to us.

Anyone else got to this stage yet? Searched forums and have seen that they

They also just retarmaced the car park in question and placed new signs all over the car park - previously only a few signs I guess - my defence is I hadn't read the signs properly as they weren't en route - and the fact they have redone the car park and placed new signs everywhere may confirm that previously the signs were not adequate!
any advice welcome please!!!!

[mystery1]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

You need to do some work here pronto. Firstly you need to find out when the claim was issued. Then you need to get the password for the online claims centre and find out if you actually have any time left to defend.

After that you need to find out who the car park belongs to and complain to them. http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4766249 I know you might blame MSE but that link provides good information and pretty much everyone was advising ignore last year, not just them.

The signage thing isn't ideal but we have more pressing matters before we get to that.

M1

[labman]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

SHush - trust Mystery 1 - he is VERY good! :beagle:

[SHush007]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

Hi Mystery man - just called the court and still no judgement in place from parking eye - i'm about to write my defence now using the template below (but will adjust accordingly): do you think this is adequate - tried finding out who the land belongs to but no joy- asked several staff in the shops along there (LIDL, Farm Foods and a gym) but staff were very unhelpful!


'I appeal against the decision of Parking Eye Ltd because they have failed to follow the BPA code of practice and attempted to impose a penalty charge for either breach of contract or trespass.

The operator does not appear to own this car park and are assumed to be merely agents for the owner or legal occupier. In their Notice and in the rejection letters, The operator has not provided me with any evidence that it is lawfully entitled to demand money from a driver or keeper, since they do not own nor have any interest or assignment of title of the land in question.

I require the operator to provide a full copy of the actual contemporaneous, signed & dated contract with the landowner.

Contracts are complicated things, so a witness statement signed by someone is not good enough, neither is a statement that a person has seen it. A copy of the original, showing the points above, is the only acceptable item as evidence that a contract exists and authorises the Operator the right, under contract, to write numerous letters to an appellant chasing monies without taking them to Court, to pursue parking charges in their own name, to retain any monies received from appellants and to pursue them through to Court.

I say that any contract is not compliant with the requirements set out in the BPA Code of Practice.

I do not believe that the Operator has the necessary legal capacity to enter into a contract with a driver of a vehicle parking in the car park, or indeed the legal standing to allege a breach of contract. I refer the Adjudicator to the recent Appeal Court decision in the case of Vehicle Control Services (VCS) v HMRC ( EWCA Civ 186 [2013]): The principal issue in this case was to determine the actual nature of Private Parking Charges.

It was stated that, "If those charges are consideration for a supply of goods or services, they will be subject to VAT. If, on the other hand, they are damages they will not be."

The ruling of the Court stated, "I would hold, therefore, that the monies that VCS collected from motorists by enforcement of parking charges were not consideration moving from the landowner in return for the supply of parking services."

In other words, they are not, as the Operator asserts, a contractual term. If they were a contractual term, the Operator would have to provide a VAT invoice, to provide a means of payment at the point of supply, and to account to HMRC for the VAT element of the charge. The Appellant asserts that these requirements have not been met. It must therefore be concluded that the Operator's charges are in fact damages, or penalties, for which the Operator must demonstrate his actual, or pre-estimated losses, as set out above.

The Operator also make reference in their appeal refusal of (date) to “seek to recover the monies owed to us” and makes no reference to the Landlord at all.

7.1 of the BPA code of practice makes it a requirement that Parking Eye either own the land, or have the written authorisation of the land owner to enable them to operate on the land. I, as registered keeper, put Parking Eye to strict proof that a valid contract exists that enables them to act in this manner on behalf of the landowner. It is not an onerus task to produce the contract as secttion 8.1 of the code means it has to be available at all times.


The BPA Code of Practice indicates at paragraph 13.4 that the Respondent should, “allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action.” The signage in the car park provides no indication of the period of time it allows and this is unreasonable, especially as Parking Eye rely on pictures taken of a vehicle at first arrival and then when leaving (not showing any evidence at all of actual parking time). So, there is no evidence that the respondent can produce to indicate that my vehicle was parked for more than the arbitrary time limit they are relying upon, and no breach of contract by the driver can be demonstrated by their evidence at all. On that basis the sum claimed fails to meet the standards set out in paragraph 19 of the BPA Code of Practice.


19.5 of the code of practice states, “If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge must be based on the genuine pre-estimate of loss that you suffer,”

There was no parking charge levied, the car park is “free”. On the date of the claimed loss it was nearly empty and there was no physical damage caused. There can have been no loss arising from this incident. Neither can Parking Eye lawfully include their operational day-to-day running costs in enforcing parking restrictions at the site (for example, by erecting signage and employing administration staff) in any 'loss' claimed. See VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICESLIMITED -v- MR R IBBOTSON and A Retailer v Ms B and Ms K, Oxford County Court. This does not represent a loss resulting from a breach of the alleged parking contract. In other words, were no breach to have occurred, the cost of parking enforcement would still have been the same. This has been quoted by PoPLA itself in adjucation.

I contend there can be no loss shown whatsoever; no pre-estimate (prior to starting to 'charge for breaches' at this site) has been prepared or considered in advance.

The charge that was levied is punitive and therefore void (i.e. unenforceable) against me. The initial charge is arbitrary and in no way proportionate to any alleged breach of contract. Nor does it even equate to local council charges for all day parking. This is all the more so for the additional charges which operator states accrues after 28 days of non-payment. This would also apply to any mentioned costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a court order. I would question that if a charge can be discounted by 40% by early payment that it is unreasonable to begin with.

UNLAWFUL PENALTY CHARGE

Since there was no demonstrable loss/damage and yet a breach of contract has been alleged for a free car park, it can only remain a fact that this 'charge' is an attempt at extorting an unlawful charge to impersonate a parking ticket. This is similar to the decisions in several County Court cases such as Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman (2008), also OBServices v Thurlow (review, February 2011), Parking Eye v Smith (Manchester County Court December 2011) and UKCPS v Murphy (April 2012) .

The operator is either charging for losses or it is a penalty/fine.

The operator could state the letter as an invoice or request for monies, but chooses to use the wording “CONTRACTUAL PARKING CHARGE NOTICE” in an attempt to be deemed an official parking fine similar to what the Police and Council Wardens issue.

The signage on site states that parking is limited to 2 hours with no return within 1 hour. There is no option to stay for longer by paying. A clear penalty.


NO CONTRACT WITH THE DRIVER

There is no contract between PCC and the driver, but even if there was a contract then it is unfair as defined in the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.. So the requirements of forming a contract such as a meeting of minds, agreement, certainty of terms, etc, were not satisfied.

UNFAIR TERMS

The charge that was levied is an unfair term, and therefore not binding, pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e) "Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation." Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) states that: "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer" and 5(2) states: "A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term."

UNREASONABLE

The charge that was levied is an unreasonable indemnity clause pursuant to section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 which provides that: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.”

I further contend that Parking Eye have failed to show me any evidence that the cameras in this car park comply with the requirements of the BPA Code of Practice part 21 (ANPR) and would require POPLA to consider that particular section of the Code in its entirety and decide whether the Operator has shown proof of contemporaneous manual checks and full compliance with section 21 of the Code, in its evidence. I, as registered keeper, contend that these cameras and their operation do not meet the standards laid down in the BPA code of practice.

I would contend that this appeal should be allowed for these reasons.'

THANK YOU FOR ANY ADVICE IN ADVANCE :-D

[SHush007]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

Claims were issue after October 1st 2012...........btw

[mystery1]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

Can you post up the particulars of claim please ?

M1

[SHush007]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

HI Mystery man - called Farmfoods (as you advised) and they were quite shocked to hear about the situation - and said they would speak with Parking Eye to ensure this didn't go any further - yet to hear back from them by Wednesday this week. Want to submit some sort of defence though as don't want judgement to be issued but really not sure what to write. what do you want to know regarding claim? It is a pay and display car park with first 2 hours free - first occasion overstayed by 50 minutes and second time 16 minutes. Signs were changed in the car park a few weeks ago (I went to photograph the signs) and the new ones indicate that the time should be noted from entry to car park - before this wasn't on there. I have two youngs kids - signs were not clearly visible prior to refitting a few weeks agao - but have no pics to prove this unfortunately. Thanks for your help with the matter!!! :-)

[mystery1]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

You need to post up the particulars of claim. That's what you are defending. It's on the claim form.

M1

[labman]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

Try Google Street View - that may show the lack of signs. You can then put them to strict proof about the erection of new signage. :beagle:

[SHush007]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

Hi labman - will do that - thanks for the suggestion! Mystery man: the particulars of claim are:

Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act.

Is this what you mean?

Thanks for help - need to submit form today if poss!!! eeks!

[mystery1]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

On the claim form on the left there is a section "particulars of claim" just under the defendant section which has your name and address and above Rachel Ledsons signature.

If we don't know what it says we cannot be sure the relevant parts are admitted or denied as appropriate.

M1

[SHush007]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

I no longer have a copy of the claim form I'm afraid......................

[tonymarron]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

Good morning - my question is easy I think - I HAVE a CCJ after Civil Enforcement Limited took me to county court for ignoring one of their invoices for a so called parking over time limit charge - the CCJ was issued while I was working away from home and I didn't have a redirect on my mail - so it has been issued for the sum of £165.00. I have written to them but they insist it has to be paid so I offered them 50% and they accepted. Has anyone got a telephone number for them? There is one on the website but this is the automatic payment line and I want to speak to someone and ask them to write to me confirming that the 50% payment is in full and final settlement and that the CCJ on my credit record will be set to "satisfied" - so has anyone got a number or contact email, thanks for your help. Tony

[mystery1]

Re: county court claim issued- date passed Parking Eye taken no action yet. HELP plea

https://www.ce-service.co.uk/contact-us.html

You can telephone us on 0115 822 5020. You can make a payment on this line 24 hours a day, or speak to an operator during normal working hours.

Other than that i don't know.

M1