surprising judgment

[des8]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/othe...ite-in-welsh/a

charitynjw interesting finding by the judge. "Judge Merfyn Jones-Evans said all signs in car parks in Wales should be bilingual, according to the Protection of Freedom Act 2012."
AFAIK there is no requirement for private companies to use the Welsh language and can't see anything in Schedule 4 that requires it.
The 1993 welsh Language Act gives equal status to the two languages and the regulations make bilingual notices etc mandatory on public and public funded bodies, but not private companies.
Perhaps i missed an update

Hoping a transcript of judgment is made public by Simple Intelligent Parking Ltd when they obtain it!

[charitynjw]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/othe...ite-in-welsh/a

charitynjw interesting finding by the judge. "Judge Merfyn Jones-Evans said all signs in car parks in Wales should be bilingual, according to the Protection of Freedom Act 2012."
AFAIK there is no requirement for private companies to use the Welsh language and can't see anything in Schedule 4 that requires it.
The 1993 welsh Language Act gives equal status to the two languages and the regulations make bilingual notices etc mandatory on public and public funded bodies, but not private companies.
Perhaps i missed an update

Hoping a transcript of judgment is made public by Simple Intelligent Parking Ltd when they obtain it!

Hi des8

Yes, I did see that judgment.

I must admit that I haven't checked into it.
I wonder if the case was heard in Welsh?

[des8]

Hi des8


I wonder if the case was heard in Welsh?

more than likely

[charitynjw]

more than likely

Anffafriaeth?

[des8]

Not really as Welsh has equal legal status with English and must not be treated less favourably.
So if you want your case held in Welsh, so be it

[des8]

The final word on the matter!

Should I be requesting all LB posts be Welsh/English bilingual

Welsh OAP wins court battle over refusal to pay parking tickets - because the fines were only written in English


Story by Richard Marsden •8h
MARKETS TODAY

• Pensioner Toni Schiavone, 67, received the £60 ticket in a Llangrannog car park
• An appeal launched by the car park operator was thrown out in a court hearing

A Welsh pensioner has won a court battle over his refusal to pay a parking fine - because the ticket was only written in English.

When Toni Schiavone, 67, received the £60 ticket in a car park in the seaside village of Llangrannog, Ceredigion, he refused to pay until he received correspondence in Welsh.

A first civil court hearing last year was thrown out because the company managing the car park, One Parking Solutions, based in Worthing, West Sussex, failed to send a legal representative.

And an appeal launched by the car park operator has also been thrown out in a hearing at Aberystwyth civil court yesterday.

Deputy judge Owain Williams decided the company had delayed for too long before launching its appeal - and introduced it under incorrect rules.

Toni Schiavone, 67, won a court battle over his refusal to pay a parking fine - because the ticket was only written in English© Provided by Daily Mail

A lawyer representing the company attended yesterday’s hearing, but the case was again thrown out.

Mr Schiavone, of Saron, Carmarthenshire, said: ‘The travel costs of the counsel alone are more than the cost of translating the fine, and the cost of conducting the case is a hundred times or more the cost of providing a Welsh fine.

‘The company’s attitude has been completely contemptuous and completely against the rights of Welsh speakers.’

A judge ordered that One Parking Solutions pay Mr Schiavone’s travel expenses.

Mr Shiavone said the money would be donated to the charity Cancer Research Wales.

Siân Howys, of Cymdeithas yr Iaith’s Welsh Language Rights Group launched a campaign encouraging people not to pay for parking in car parks with English-only signs© Provided by Daily Mail

Mr Schiavone received the £60 ticket in a car park in the seaside village of Llangrannog, Ceredigion© Provided by Daily Mail

Siân Howys, of Cymdeithas yr Iaith’s Welsh Language Rights Group, said: ‘We are pleased that the judge ruled in favour.

‘It is becoming increasingly evident that these companies need to change their attitudes towards the Welsh language.

'To put pressure on them we will today be launching a campaign encouraging people not to pay for parking in car parks with English-only signs, nor to pay the resultant fines.’

One Parking Solutions has previously been at the centre of controversy in Llangrannog after a local welfare committee said it had been “inundated” with complaints over allegedly unfair fines issued at a busy beachside car park operated by the firm.

A spokesperson for the Welsh Government said: “We are keen to see all sectors increase the use of Welsh and supporting businesses to develop their Welsh language services is a priority for us.”

One Parking Solution said it did not wish to make any comment.

[MIKE770]

pickety?

I want to hear it in Zummerzet language? wassay thee

[PallasAthena]

Welsh language campaigners are understandably claiming it as a victory for the use of Welsh but it seems the judge made no ruling that the motorist was entitled to get PCNs and parking correspondence in Welsh. The parking company's case was thrown out on narrow procedural grounds and no judgement was given on the motorist's substantive legal argument or on use of the Welsh language in private parking cases.

From the article posted upthread:

"Deputy judge Owain Williams decided the company had delayed for too long before launching its appeal - and introduced it under incorrect rules."

So specific procedural errors by the parking company relevant to this case only is how I read it, nothing that other motorists could use to justify non-payment.

[des8]

True the appeal was rejected on procedural grounds, which means the original ruling stands, and still has persuasive value.

But in any case, good to see one of the worst parking companies on the losing side

[PallasAthena]

Yes it was an appeal against the original ruling in the motorist's favour in May 2022 at which One Parking Solution failed to to turn up but I can't find any place where the judgement has been published so I find it hard to tell whether it has any persuasive value on the key issue of whether PCN and private parking must be bi-lingual.

The link at the top of this thread no longer links to the story and the only media report quoting the original May 2022 court decision that I can find is in WalesOnline and says:

The County Court at Aberystwyth confirmed that the claim had been dismissed. The District Judges' reasons were that: "The Claimant did not satisfy the Court on the balance of probabilities that the terms of any contract between the Claimants and Defendant were fair and therefore enforceable. The Court was bound to consider the fairness of the contract in accordance with the provisions of Section 71 Consumer Rights Act 2015."

But no indication how the judge arived at that conclusion. Was it unfair because it wasn't in Welsh? Or was it some other aspect of One Parking Solution's signage/contract that was unfair?

[des8]

Here's another case where a judge stated notices in English only were not sufficient in Wales https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2355487.html

I also recall Parking Eye having bilingual signs that stated different conditions (due to poor translations), and also losing in court due to not accepting an appeal in Welsh

The problem for the companies) is that they don't seem to know about the Welsh Language Act.

[PallasAthena]

Neither case mentions the Welsh Language Act or its (partial) successor the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 neither of which, AIUI, apply to private parking companies (or private sector businesses generally).

I'm raising the point really only to question whether any persuasive precedent has been set by either case which would help other motorists in Wales. Both cases seem heavily fact-specific and no judgement has been made which says there is a general legal obligation for PCNs to be in Welsh or that the Welsh Language Act 1993/ Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 apply to private parking companies.

[des8]

...... and the saga continues https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y-harassed-him

There have been other cases where the companies have lost due to not producing bi lingual documentation.
Some (e.g. Parking Eye) have learnt and do now produce Welsh language documents

[des8]

The final word? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/...olution%20(OPS).

Not surprised as in post 1 I referred to the 1993 Welsh Language Act as not applying to private companies

[R0b]

I genuinely have no idea why OPS decided to send a cost schedule knowing that it would be highly unlikely that those kind of sums would be recovered, only then for their barrister to confirm they would not be pursuing those costs - of course they won't because the unreasonable behaviour threshold has not been met!

That said, it is somewhat amusing to read that the driver states he will not be paying the judgment amount. What a waste of money, they could have simply let this one go and argued that it didn't apply the next time someone else decided to raise it as a defence point. Goes to show some companies will go to great lengths to get the outcome they want, regardless of cost.