Who's responsible.

[Albierose26]

Has anyone come across this before pls?

There are 2 signs on the entrance to the Car Park I was going to use.

The first was EXCEL's who stated that they managed & controlled "this car park"

the second sign was from VCS Limited which stated "VCS Ltd manage & control this private land"

VCS Ltd sign stated "No Parking or waiting at any time"

It goes on to say "if you break the contractual terms you agree to pay the parking charge"

But there is no Parking there they said there wasn't!!!!!

So it can't be a parking charge it is a penalty for trespassing, in my eyes anyway.

Also if you trespass on private land it is tort law and that I think means you have to pay to the Owner of the land for damages caused. I might be wrong here I'm sure someone will know better than me as quite a novice when it comes to parking.

[des8]

Have you actually received a Parking Charge Notice, or is this a what if question?

[Albierose26]

My husband has received a PCN from Excel, after 27 days

[des8]

What was the date of the incident?
What is the date when the PCN was issued?

Perhaps post up a redacted copy of the PCN.

[Albierose26]

The date of incident was 4/11/22

PCN Issued 1/12/22

Received 7/12/22

[des8]

Assuming the car is registered in your husband's name (i.e. not hired or in company name) send Excel a letter along the lines of:

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc

send first class post with free certificate of posting from a post office

[Albierose26]

Thanks I was a bit confused. Told different things by different forums.

You cannot appeal if you are a keeper
If you don't appeal then you can't go to Popla to get it dismissed {(Told Popla will dismiss as it is the law i.e14 days)
That the judge if it went to court can order you to say who driver is

your advice sounds sensible.

Also if you are the keeper I know you don't have to tell them who is driving but for eg you are also the driver would you have to tell them that?

[des8]

You are not required to identify the driver, even if it was the keeper.

If the parking company do not know the identity of the driver, the law allows them to hold the keeper liable for their charges.
However to transfer the liability they have to comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). schedule 4.
If they fail to comply with those requirements they cannot hold the keeper liable, and the keeper can dispute their charges.
If they don't cancel the charge, I would expect an appeal to POPLA to be successful.

[Albierose26]

Thought about it and I composed this is it a bit too strong do you think? Going to send by their email contact & letter in post as back-up.

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxxx VRN vehicle xxxxxx
Your appeal form does not allow details of your position in relation to your legal rights i.e. Schedule 4 PoF Act 2012 to be substituted in Reasons.

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Please note that this email is confidential and any breach of the contents of this email will be considered a breach of the Data Protection Act and will result in a complaint to the ICO.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment and may result in legal action. This includes any form of communication from any other third parties you care to instruct.

This email constitutes a contract between xxxxx & EXCEL PARKING (Excel) with the following terms.
1. EXCEL keeps all data/communication either to or from private, including but not limited to, name, address etc. to any third party
2. EXCEL will remove all data held by any means including but not limited to electronic, written or recorded
3. EXCEL will agree to notify me by email that the PCN is cancelled within 14 days
4. if any vital correspondence/call is needed by EXCEL then EXCEL agree to pay myself my normal hourly consultation rate of £60 per hour to respond to their request
5. If EXCEL refuses to accept their legal responsibilities as set out in the schedule of FOP Act 2012 and refuses to cancel this notice then this email is to be accepted as an appeal notice and EXCEL will send the code for the POPLA Appeal Service.

Yours etc
xxxxx

[des8]

Don't confuse the issue!

Your email does not constitute a contract so suggest you do not include the final paragraph