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PCM issued 2 PCNs for parking in my own space!

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  • PCM issued 2 PCNs for parking in my own space!

    In the interests of easy reading, I will be referring to both the keeper and driver as myself though this is not necessarily the case.

    Where I live there is a private car park at the rear of the property with numbered bays for each of the residents.
    I parked my car for the first time in my space at night, and mistakenly inserted the permit in the holder the wrong way round so although it was facing up, it was hard to read through the paper backing of the permit holder.
    2 days later I was informed by a neighbour that my car had two tickets on it... 2 x Parking charge notices from Parking Control Management Ltd.
    Shortly after (the same week), I received the notice to keepers in the post giving the opportunity to appeal.

    There was picture evidence on the website, of the car, in the bay, pictures of signage, and with the permit visible in the holder but apparently not "legible".
    I appealed both, identifying the keeper as the driver (Potential mistake?) explaining it was the first time parking, the permit is present and valid, although not entirely legible, and I am in-fact a resident of the flats the car park serves.
    The appeals were both quickly refused and I decided it was easiest to pay, under protest, the discounted rate of £60 each, which I tried doing on the PCM website.
    The website timed out on the occasion I tried to pay (Browsing history as evidence) so I thought I'd try again at a later date.
    I forgot to pay in the first 14 days and the discounted rate expired, a reminder came through but I was not in a position to pay and seeing as I didn't agree with the original charges I decided it was no longer in my interest to pay the inflated charge either.

    The matter was quickly passed onto Trace Debt Recovery UK Limited who were now demanding £170 for each PCN (The signage in the car park states the increase is only £60, not the £70 they are now claiming).
    It has been a few weeks since their first correspondence and they have not increased the fee yet, but using the usual "ignore and we will see you in court" kind of thing.

    I am currently in talks with the estate agent to establish whether I, the resident, have the parking rights to the space I parked in, and if PCM have any right to have even ticketed me.

    I'd like to know what my next steps are, as Trace nor PCM are entertaining the idea of any further appeals or representations and they are just out for blood it seems.
    £340 for parking inside my own parking bay seems a little steep don't you think?

    Hope any of you could shed some light on this for me, thank you!

    (See below, the original ticket, the permit as they found it, the appeal, the rejection, and the letter from Trace - Some dates might be +/- 1 day different simply because there are 2 PCNs here and identical in nature)
    Attached Files

  • #2
    So what does your lease say abot aprking and could you post up an image of the signs

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ostell View Post
      So what does your lease say abot aprking and could you post up an image of the signs
      The tenancy agreement states nothing about the parking space (it is included in the definition of the phrase "The Premises" though).
      The landlord has confirmed that the space is ours and we have a right to use it, but since direct contact is not possible, I have to go through the agents and its very slow trying to get an exact answer for who has parking rights in the space.

      After several requests to the agent they sent over a copy of the inventory list and pictures show the parking space with the number of our flat painted in it, and an included parking permit which was provided to us. We however, do not want PCM to monitor our space and have never instructed them to do so.

      See attached, the signage present (This is evidence collected by the parking operator and is viewable on the website for this PCN)

      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ostell View Post
        So what does your lease say abot aprking and could you post up an image of the signs
        The landlord has confirmed that the tenant has exclusive rights to the space, and we are all now of the persuasion that the tickets were in-fact issued illegally. (They are sending over a copy of the original lease so we have proof of the same)

        Trace have kept up their menacing letters and say something to the effect of "We've passed the matter onto our enforcement team" whatever that might mean.

        What do you reckon is the best approach now?

        Comment


        • #5
          When you determine that your landlord owns the land and can show it you tell PCM to leave you alone as you already have the right to park in that space and do not require another contract for the same.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ostell View Post
            When you determine that your landlord owns the land and can show it you tell PCM to leave you alone as you already have the right to park in that space and do not require another contract for the same.
            As soon as a copy of the lease is made available, the keeper will inform PCM - Any day now hopefully. I'm hoping that they subsequently instruct Trace to withdraw any enforcement action, but in all likelyhood I expect them to spit out the usual "Any chance to make an appeal or representation has expired so give us your money" emails... In which case the keeper has to wait until it goes to court?
            Is there any recourse or action that could be taken against PCM or Trace, seeing as their unlawful ticket and enforcement actions have taken up countless hours of time, and caused immense stress for all those involved?

            Apologies if this is a silly question but I've been lucky enough to never have to deal with companies like this before so I don't know what might be next.

            Once again, thank you for your replies so far. I will continue to update this thread.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ostell View Post
              When you determine that your landlord owns the land and can show it you tell PCM to leave you alone as you already have the right to park in that space and do not require another contract for the same.
              Alright - Now in possession of a copy of the lease plan, with the flat and parking space highlighted. How do I go about informing the debt collector and PCM that the tickets issued were illegal?

              I'd also like to report them to DVLA somehow for illegally accessing the vehicle details.

              Comment


              • #8
                ostell des8 bump? (Also is it bad form on this site to tag people for help? Apologies if so)

                Comment


                • #9
                  No problems tagging people (sometimes you have to prod as posts do get missed )

                  Regarding what to tell PCM about issuing unfair (not illegal!) parking invoices is covered in post 5.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by des8 View Post
                    No problems tagging people (sometimes you have to prod as posts do get missed )

                    Regarding what to tell PCM about issuing unfair (not illegal!) parking invoices is covered in post 5.
                    Thank you! - Will get in touch with them and Trace recovery and I'll update the thread as soon as I hear back

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      des8 ostell A copy of the lease for the property was secured from the landlord (the leaseholder) and there is no mention at all of the parking space specifically (though the term "The Building" would cover it), and no mention of parking enforcement agents. The lease does however contain a plan (attached) showing the flat and the parking space as being part of the lease. This plan was forwarded over to Trace (who weren't helpful, simply extending the 14 days to pay! for the 4th time) and PCM, who responded with the attached letter.

                      The lease is about 30 pages long; I don't suppose anyone would look over it, even if it was digitised. I read through and the only points of concern are point 11 under "The deed witnesseth as follows...", and point 19 under "Third Schedule - Restrictions and regulations imposed in respect of the flat" (attached below).

                      Point 11 only concerns me because there is a slim possibility that "maintaining" "other conveniences belonging to the building" could by a wild stretch of the imagination also mean "survey the car park and issue tickets", not that we've ever personally had any previous notice written or otherwise.

                      Point 19 concerns me more because it seems so vague and quite frankly I am out of my depth trying to understand it.

                      The tenancy agreement (not attached) does not contain ANY mention of the car parking space, nor does it state explicitly that any kind of parking permit is required to use the space, despite the fact that the space IS included in our rent, and is a part of the building in the leasehold.

                      The only cause for concern is that pictured in the inventory list, along with keys to the flat etc. there is also a parking permit which was given to the tenant, though it could quite easily also be argued that this is not in fact evidence that a parking permit is required, simply that one was used by a previous occupier to aid in easy parking to avoid a dispute such as the one the current tenant has found themselves in.

                      Please let me know what you think the next best move is.
                      I don't suppose copying and forwarding the entire lease and tenancy agreement to PCM is the best move?
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by pcnlmao; 22nd September 2022, 16:01:PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        des8 ostell bump?

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                        • #13
                          I would just repeat to Trace that you were parking on your own property and your lease does not require you to display a parking permit so would they kindly stop sending unfounded requests for money.
                          Remind them that as the alleged debt is disputed it should be returned to their principals. and tell them that any further such letters will be deemed harassment .
                          If they continue with attempts at collection you will report to FCA.

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                          • #14
                            Is te marking of your parking space similar to the marking of the flat? Are they both surrounded by a red lime, and does the lease let te property surrounded by a red line?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dslippy View Post
                              Is te marking of your parking space similar to the marking of the flat? Are they both surrounded by a red lime, and does the lease let te property surrounded by a red line?
                              Yes identical

                              Comment

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