Smart Parking - Initial Appeal Denied, Currently with POPLA - (Previous PCN as well)

[Slade2]

Hello All,

I am after some advise on this one.

On a recent visit to a car park we parked up and I went to get a ticket but entered the incorrect registration which had a wrong letter and a letter also missing. I didn't think anything of it at the time because I paid the correct amount to park and me and my wife went for some lunch and got some shopping and returned and left in plenty of time.

I received a similar PCN letter in the post that smart normally send out and appealed via their website saying that I had a ticket. The letter issued I probably could have argued wasn't a proper NTK but I didn't want to go down that route I don't want to have to pay a fine for a genuine mistake. Smart parking have subsequently rejected my appeal and I have given broadly the same appeal to POPLA along the lines of the wrong registration number on the ticket is broadly irrelevant as I had paid the fee to park. I am of course waiting for POPLA to probably come back saying they are denying my appeal.

I know the chances of this going any further are fairly slim but I want to try and get ahead of it should Smart parking decide they are going to take it further. They seemed to upload a lot of stuff when it came to their submission for the POPLA process so it would appear someone has been doing some work in the background but I want to fight this all the way and am happy to stand up in court and defend myself if it ever gets there.

I`m not sure its relevant but we had another PCN on a different card that we owned a few years back from Town and City parking which went away after we followed the previous advice of just ignoring it. I believe town and city are now owned by smart so i am wondering if they might decide to include both of these in a court claim at a later date?

Thanks for reading!

[charitynjw]

Hi & welcome.

Ignoring is now regarded as bad advice.

You are doing the right thing by preparing for battle.

POPLA tend to concentrate on the legalities.
If you are confident of non-compliant NtK, etc, accentuate those points.
If you post up pics of the Ntk (redacted, front & rear, but leave ALL dates/times visible) plus pics of site signs, we can comment further.

[Slade2]

Thanks for the reply Charitynjw,

The appeal is already progressing through POPLA which I expect to get denied. I was angry that my initial appeal to smart had been denied and quickly fired off the POPLA appeal and Smart have already submitted their evidence which I have again reply with use some common sense!

I don`t think I have named the driver as of yet unless it was in one of the drop down lists on the appeal site but I wasn't driving and I`m not the keeper either I am doing this on behalf of the keeper/driver.

[charitynjw]

That's ok.

POPLA's decision is only binding on the parking co, not the driver/RK.

While you're awaiting the outcome, use the time to get your ducks in a row, just in case.

[ostell]

Smart seem to have been issuing non POFA compliant NTKs recently. Did you mention this to POPLA?

As neither the keeper nor the driver could be interesting !. Edit so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. Use "the driver ...." etc.

[Slade2]

No mention of non POFA NTK at POPLA unfortunately. Would this still be a defence should it make it`s way to court? I`m just annoyed it comes down to this as its clear I has paid and still have the actual ticket in my possession. Other car parks don't operate like this and this was our first and only visit to this particular carpark. I have actually already emailed the company saying they have lost my business as a result of this but they have not even decided to acknowledge me with a reply as of yet.

[ostell]

So if you are not the keeper or the driver are they directing their actions against you?

If the driver has not been identified then a non POFA NTK is a defence.

do you want to post up the NTK, suitably redacted but leave dates. Is this directed to you, the non keeper?

[charitynjw]

No mention of non POFA NTK at POPLA unfortunately. Would this still be a defence should it make it`s way to court? .

Short answer....yes!

(Long answer.....yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!)

[Slade2]

The letter from Smart is addressed to the keeper, I am acting for her because she asked me to deal with it so I filled both the appeal to Smart and the POPLA appeal, was probably a bit hasty in doing so hence the post on this very forum. I would have no issue with a voluntary payment of say £20 to cover the costs that smart have incurred up to this point but there is no way I will pay over £100 for what amounts to unreasonable contract terms and them trying to profit from a simple mistake. The way I see it then didn't make a loss because the ticket was paid for.

Smart parking didn't argue this change in contract but still accepted payment that didn't match the ANPR, therefore accepting money for a car they knew wasn't on the car park! which has been pretty much the line I have taken from the start of this process and will continue with this if It gets to court, obviously along with any other items that the fine members of this forum recommend that I include.

The details of the letter I received from Smart are word for word the same as the letter this person from this post received its basically exactly the same letter with different info on it. No mention of notice to keeper or anything to do with FOPA on the letter anywhere.

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...-beach-newquay

[charitynjw]

The letter from Smart is addressed to the keeper, who was also the driver on the day in question. I am acting for her because she asked me to deal with it so I filled both the appeal to Smart and the POPLA appeal, was probably a bit hasty in doing so hence the post on this very forum. I would have no issue with a voluntary payment of say £20 to cover the costs that smart have incurred up to this point but there is no way I will pay over £100 for what amounts to unreasonable contract terms and them trying to profit from a simple mistake. The way I see it then didn't make a loss because the ticket was paid for.

Smart parking didn't argue this change in contract but still accepted payment that didn't match the ANPR, therefore accepting money for a car they knew wasn't on the car park! which has been pretty much the line I have taken from the start of this process and will continue with this if It gets to court, obviously along with any other items that the fine members of this forum recommend that I include.

The details of the **letter** I received from Smart are word for word the same as the letter this person from this post received its basically exactly the same letter with different info on it. No mention of notice to keeper or anything to do with FOPA on the letter anywhere.

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...-beach-newquay

**The postal NtK?

It is always dodgy to try & give opinion on an example NtK.
Fistral has it's own unique issues.

Is there any kind of invitation to ID the driver on yours? (Front or rear)

[ostell]

So don't identify the driver !!!! Get editing, unless the driver has already been identified. ALL your posts.

Post up the PCN, suitably redacted, but leave dates.

[Slade2]

PCN enclosed with the info redacted. Do I need to edit my previous posts? will smart actually look at these forums? I am now unsure if I named the driver during my appeal to Smart parking I don`t think I did but I`m not 100% on that one. I welcome any any recommendations for going forward I would imagine its only a matter of time before the POPLA rejection and the letters from DRP start Is it worth contacting smart after this happens and just letting them know that I have no intention of paying there frivolous demand for payment(s) and that I will indeed be happy to defend the matter if court should they wish to proceed? I`m not eager to go to court of course but its more the principal of it that I`m not willing to fight.

Incidentally, I have searched with interest this forum but cant seem to find any more info. Have smart every issued proceeding for court for a wrong registration number?

[charitynjw]

Try as I might, I just cannot read the blurb under 'Parking charge notice - Do not ignore'.

But it doesn't look like there is any invitation to the RK to ID the driver. (Front or rear of NtK)

Can you confirm that?

Could you perhaps type it verbatim?
(C'mon.....what else have you got to do tonight?)

[Slade2]

I removed the original picture because after reading, it contains the Registration and the location




The text above even contradicts itself by saying `by either not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted`. Well I didn't do either of those things, I paid for my time on the car park and left with plenty of time to spare!

[charitynjw]

There's no definite invitation to ID the driver.....a 'must' for PoFA......so NtK is NDG

But if you have already ID'd the driver, the driver (but not the RK) can be pursued for common law breach of contract. (If the sign is kosher, that is!)