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Claim PCN

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  • Claim PCN

    Hi,

    I was issued a parking charge notice in NOV-2015 for 'failed to make valid payment' and images showing a car registered in my name entering and leaving a private car park over a period of an hour and a half. The PCN was issued by Britannia Parking and through some initial internet based research of my own it looked appropriate to ignore paying the charge of £85.

    I received another letter for a final request of payment a little while later and then no correspondence for years. Late last year I have received another request for payment from BW Legal this time and the potential for the case to be taken to court if a, now increased, charge was not received. I responded with the following via email directly to BW legal.

    'Re claim account number: XXXXXXX

    I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle mentioned in your letter dated XXXX XXXXXXX 2018. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your letter is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

    - If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.
    - If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.
    - in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

    Formal note:
    Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.'

    Yours faithfully,
    XXXXXX



    They have now responded with,


    'Good Morning

    Thank you for your recent email, the contents of which have been noted on file.

    Having viewed the contents of this letter we note that large parts, if not all, are templates which are readily available on the internet and templates we have seen many times before. Such templates only seek to frustrate the process and we are disappointed that this is the stance you have chosen to take.

    Please find enclosed a copy of all correspondence issued by our Client and photographic evidence of the vehicle at the location of the contravention. We can confirm that the Parking Charge notice was issued correctly and it is the responsibility of the motorist to abide by the Terms and Conditions.

    Whilst we note you have sent in a letter which is based on templates from the internet, we would ask that you contact our office to discuss an amicable way forward in this matter and look forward to hearing from you within 14 days of receiving this letter.

    Please contact us on XXXXXX'


    BW Legal have not sent details of the payment machine used or images of the signage. Instead just the initial images received in 2015 of a car registered in my name entering and leaving at the time indicated on the PCN (of which the number plates are illegible, but accompanied by a single close up image of the number plate at an alternative angle) I guess my question is how best to take this forward, I have no evidence to submit due to the time elapsed since the initial PCN but do not wish to pay the now exorbitant amount requested to park for an hour and a half.

    Is this the end of the line? should I pay the PCN and added charges. I realise this is a common topic but most other examples I have found have evidence of a defense against paying the PCN. Any help on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

    Regards,
    Da123
    Tags: None

  • #2
    So you send a SAR to Britannia and request all the documents that the hold. As a keeper you are not liable for the additional charges. Post up the PCN when you receive it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi, I responded to BW Legal and Britannia Parking.

      To Britannia I sent a SAR in the format featured in most of forums.

      To BW legal I wrote to them explaining that I have contacted Britannia and would like my file to be put on hold, as some of the forums suggested.

      Britannia responded via email

      'You are no longer able to dispute/appeal this PCN. You were given 28 day to appeal when the Notice to Keeper was issued to you on 27/11/2015, which you failed to do so. All future communication must now be with BW Legal.'

      And BW legal posted their response via a letter, they basically said the right to restrict processing only applies in certain limited circumstances and they are not of the view that the right to restrict processing is applicable in this case. Their client has a right to recover the sums due to them, and to please contact them to reach a suitable resolution. If i am dissatisfied with their response I may raise a complaint with the information commissioner's office.

      So in short I have no further info from either BW legal or Britannia Parking, just the original PCN with a picture of my car entering and leaving the car park and a close up of the number plate, that's it. No signage photo or readout from the pay meter.

      What would be the best step forward from here?

      Many thanks for any help.

      Comment


      • #4
        Attachments
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          If that's all of the first page then the appeal should have been

          Dear Sirs,

          I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

          You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

          There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

          I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

          Yours etc



          Here's POFA to look at They've also not got 9 (2) (e) correct. I didn't check the rest.

          So you can send that information to Brittania AND BWL and say that there is no keeper liability because they have failed to comply.

          Comment


          • #6
            Excellent thank you.

            Comment


            • #7
              I recieved this from BW legal

              'Thank you for your email, the contents of which have been noted on file.

              You have made an allegation that you were not the driver of the Vehicle on the Contravention Date. As the registered keeper of the Vehicle, and given that you had not provided our client with the full name and serviceable address of the driver within 28 days from the date of the PCN, our client is able to hold you liable for the unpaid parking charge on the reasonable presumption that the driver of the vehicle had either actual or ostensible authority to enter into a contract with our client in relation to parking on your behalf. This is supported by the case Combined Parking Solutions Ltd v AJH Films Ltd [2015] EWCA 1453.

              Without prejudice to the above, we would be grateful if you would furnish us with details, including the full name and address, of the alleged driver of the Vehicle on the Contravention Date. Upon receipt of this information, we will take further instructions from our client and revert back to you in due course. If you withhold this information, we reserve the right to draw the courtís attention (if county court proceedings have been issued) to your conduct which may be perceived to be unreasonable in refusing to comply with our reasonable request for information. We also reserve our clientís position in terms of costs.

              Should you wish to discuss this matter further, please contact...'


              I guess they made the conclusion that from me stating 'There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.' that I have indicated that I was not the driver when the offence was made. Is this an issue?
              Last edited by Da123; 2nd March 2019, 11:19:AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                ... and today I have received a claim form with sections for 'response pack' 'aknowledgment of service' 'admission' and 'defence and counterclaim'

                The amount claimed is around £170 and total amount inc. curt fee and legal is around £245!

                big money now so not sure what to do next?

                Comment


                • #9
                  If this is a genuine claim form (Post up a redacted copy) then the first thing to do is to acknowledge the claim using the details and password on the form. Put nothing in the defence. This gives you 33 days from the date of issue to get your defence to the court.

                  Is this a company car or one registered in your name? I'm assuming that it is your own.

                  Write back to BWL and request copies of all the documents they intend to use in court in order to narrow the issues between you, as expected by the courts. As these documents will be in their possession in order to perform due diligence before issuing the claim then you require the documents within 7 days.

                  You also add that they are misstating Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) in that there is no requirement within that legislation to identify the driver at the time. If the driver is unknown then they can only transfer liability to the keeper if they fully comply with the many requirements of POFA. It has already been pointed out that several of those requirements have not been met and therefore there can be no transfer of liability.

                  Their mention of CPS v AJH Films is irrelevant as this is not a vehicle registered to a business. They know this as this argument raised by them has been rejected by the courts on numerous occasions.

                  They are well aware that you will prevail at court and continuation of this claim is unreasonable and you will claim your full costs.


                  I'll think of more later.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Not a company car, it was my own at the time. Sold now. See front page of form...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Attachment
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi

                        Could you also tell us the date of issue of the original PCN?
                        (Was it a windscreen ticket?)

                        The date of issue on the postal notice (your post #4)

                        & date of contravention.
                        ​​​​​​​
                        CAVEAT LECTOR

                        This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                        You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                        Cohen, Herb


                        There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                        gets his brain a-going.
                        Phelps, C. C.


                        "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                        The last words of John Sedgwick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Date of contravention was 30 Oct 2015
                          PCN was issued 27th Nov 2015 by post. No window sticker received.
                          Note their claim form states PCN was issued on 30/10/15 which is incorrect, that was the date of contravention.
                          BW legal letter of claim was 19th Dec 18
                          BW legal information data response letter was 25th Jan 19
                          BW legal request for driver details was 12th Feb 19
                          Claim Form received today
                          Last edited by Da123; 2nd March 2019, 13:12:PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If the first PCN was via the post (ie no windscreen PCN), then they have 14 days in which to serve you with notice.
                            (ie You should have received it within 14 days.)
                            This is if they are relying on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 9.
                            However, I suspect that they are claiming that a windscreen PCN was issued. (Hence the issue date stated.)

                            On what date was the postal PCN sent to you?
                            CAVEAT LECTOR

                            This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                            You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                            Cohen, Herb


                            There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                            gets his brain a-going.
                            Phelps, C. C.


                            "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                            The last words of John Sedgwick

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              PCN was over 2 years ago so I can't recall date received, shortly after the issued date of the 27th. I have no proof from the driver of the vehicle that a PCN was or was not issued at the time of the contravention, but Britannia have also not provided any that it was.

                              Comment

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