UKPC PCN Wrong registration.

[Peanutsear]

Hi all.

I'm hoping for a bit of advice.

On Date(Don't know if this can be included at this point) at a retail park UKPC issued a ticket to a friend who 'Parked in a roadway.
The ticket was stuck to the window, but ticket contained an incorrect letter in the registration.
No action was taken by friend.

Since, a notice to keeper has arrived dated (32 days later). (New reference number)
It reads 'this parking charge notice supercedes (Original ticket number).

There is an image attached of suspect vehicle with correct reg.

The letter reads that the driver is responsible for payment and it invites the registered keeper to ID the driver or the matter will be handed onto a debt recovery firm.

The question is, are there grounds to challenge or should these notices be ignored?

Any help would be appreciated as what to do and what I can actually post.
images of both the original PCN and letter are available.

Thanks.

[ostell]

They cannot reissue a notice to driver as they have to hand to the driver or place it on the windscreen for it to be valid under POFA. Are they stating the new notice is a Notice to Keeper?

A notice to Keeper has to contain the same information as the original Notice to Driver, which it clearly can't do with a different VRM.

I think a letter to them from the keeper telling them that as this is a new PCN without a corresponding windscreen ticket then they have failed to contact the keeper within the relevant period of 14 days and therefore liability cannot be transferred from the driver to the keeper. There is no legal requirement to identify the driver.

If you search around you will find other examples similar to this.

[Peanutsear]

Yeah the original incorrect ticket was stuck on the windscreen.

The new one states it's a notice to keeper.
Same date times etc but with a new ref number. Stating it supersedes the wrong one.

Person requesting advice has both the wrong ticket that has wrong registration on and he never notice to keeper. With correct reg.
They have clearly had to check their own photo to check with DVLA to send out the NTK.

It just reads like an invite to ID the driver. Before they hand it onto debt recovery. Do they even bother? They have no idea who driver is.

I will advise to search around also.
Thanks for the reply. much appreciated.

[ostell]

Just send a letter in the format I suggested. Post up here for critique before sending

I am presuming that it arrived more than 14 days afterwards

[Peanutsear]

I'll pass that advice on to person requesting.

Yes ticket stuck to windscreen on16th month.
NTK dated 18th following month. 32days.

[ostell]

Here's a suggested response (now that I'm back on the desktop machine):

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


If there is any more arguments from them then for there to be a POFA compliant Notice to Driver then it has to be given to the driver or affixed before the car leaves the parking place, POFA 7 (4), so no way could there be a valid NTD and therefore the NTK has to be according to paragraph 9

[Peanutsear]

That's brilliant thank you.
I'll be passing this on today to get it sent.

Does keeper send a letter or send such as an email. Or doesn't matter?

Thanks again.

[ostell]

Doesn't matter but whatever method, or both, get proof that it was sent. If email then Bcc to yourself and if mail then get free certificate of posting from a Post Office.

[Peanutsear]

Thank you.

I will come back here when there is an update.

Cheers

[Peanutsear]

The keeper has drafted this. Your info was passed on and this is what has come back.
Any advice would be appreciated. Cheers.

Dear UKPC

I am writing to you regarding your Notice to Keeper letter, reference XXXXXXXX which states it supersedes XXXXXXXXX. I wish to invoke your appeals process as all liability to your company is denied on the following;

- Your Notice to Keeper does not contain the same information as the original Notice to Driver.
- Your Notice to Driver was not compliant with the BPA COP and POFA 2012 and was a nullify due to it having the incorrect vehicle registration on it. Therefore no correct Notice to driver was properly given.
- You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 day’s as prescribed by Section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the registered keeper.
- There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

These points along with others will be raised with POPLA should you not accept this appeal, and you will be expected to provide a full breakdown of your alleged loss to them. Your case is fatally flawed by the lack of a Notice to Driver which cannot now be reissued retrospectively 32 day’s later to the correct Vehicle registration. I have the original as proof for POPLA and would also argue you had no reasonable cause to obtain my data whatsoever, so I will also be sending a complaint to the DVLA regarding your pursuit from a flawed PCN.

Regards

keeper

[ostell]

It's too full, and with contradictions in it. I was specifically trying not to mention the original PCN as it only muddies the waters. Anything not necessary may be turned round and used against you. More does not mean better in these instances. Keep it to the one thing you have: the late NTK that was issued without a related NTD. Forget what went before.

You last paragraph is completely meaningless. The whole point of claiming for non delivery within 14 days is the fact that there was no Notice to Driver. Loss has nothing to do with it, they are claiming a contractual amount that the driver agreed to by parking. Their contact with the DVLA is perfectly valid and above board, they are entitled to contact the DVLA to try and recover an alleged breach of parking conditions. The situation is that in this instance they are not entitled to use POFA.

If they reject then it all goes into the POPLA appeal.

[Peanutsear]

Thanks mate..
I will pass it on. Its really not my NTK to challenge so I'll let them know.

[Peanutsear]

Just an update mate.
Friend has sent an appeal to them with your template. So await a reply.

Whilst this has been going on.
In between the parking date and NTK being received 32 days later.
A Separate parking charge has been received for the same original date. Different times with a different reference number. Labelled parking charge. Dated 24 days after the incident. Parked in the same place.
This letter refers to being parked in a staff car park. The images attached are clearly from a CCTV camera.

The first one clearly states parking 'in a roadway'.

It seems to me that Mr ticket man on foot has had a go and Mr CCTV operator has had a go.

I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts.

Many thanks.

[ostell]

They're trying to cover up their cockup by issuing another NTK and frighten the keeper onto paying.

[Peanutsear]

It's not a NTK like the other one that came 32 days later.
It's titled to friend. Parking charge.

Do they ignore this and await a NTK?
Ignore completely?
Appeal it as its got a competely different reference number.