Gladstones Letter Before Claim

[otterface]

Hi all,

I had a Letter Before Claim through from Gladstones dated 24th September (received 30th). I've been advised that I should submit a SAR to the PPC for information and respond to Gladstones to advise they stop processing the claim until the PPC provide the requested information.

I'm a little confused by the process in all honesty and I know I've potentially shot myself in the foot by not sending the SAR as quickly as I should have.

Once the PPC (hopefully) provide everything I've requested, what do I do then? Do I just write to Gladstones to say that I dispute the claim and wait for them to go from there? I could be completely overthinking this but I'm lost and overwhelmed and I'm starting to panic that I should have sent the SAR off last week and am digging myself a deep hole..

I always said if I got this letter I would fight it vehemently, but right now I can totally see why some people cave and pay.

Thank you in advance for your help.

[ostell]

So you also can write to Gladstones and ask them that in order to narrow the issues in dispute, you require copies of all the documents that they intend to rely on in court. As they must have all the documents in their possession in order to perform due diligence on the matter before issuing any claim it is not unreasonable to require that the copies are delivered within 7 days.

I believe that this adds time to the 30 days until they comply with your request.

Then you can tell us a bit more about the matter and post up a suitably redacted PCN, if you have one, for people to comment on in preparation for you defence if required. Don't disclose the identity of the driver, you are the keeper.

[otterface]

Hi Ostell,

Thank you for your reply, it has calmed me down a bit.

So I've drafted a reply to Gladstones and one to New World Facilities East Essex Ltd which I will post out ASAP. I've attached copies.

When I get home I will dig out the PCN, and can give information about the situation (residential parking).

Thank you again.

[ostell]

You've added too much to the SAR request. Keep it a simple request for documents with no queries. Someone will give you the correct legal definitions to add. There is a template for SAR somewhere on theis forum

[otterface]

Hi Ostell,

I've found the template and amended.

Essentially, the car was parked in my allocated bay at the apartment building I live in. I rent the apartment. From my understanding and through observation, the PPC took over 'control' of the car park shortly after I moved in. When I moved in I received a permit from the Estate Agent which I displayed clearly on my dashboard. I received a PCN at the start of January 17 which had the incorrect address on - it was for the block of flats behind. As they were a new company, I thought it had been a newbie mistake and naively thought I could appeal it, it would be overturned and I would be on my merry way. A second PCN appeared on the windscreen 15 days later (while I was waiting to hear the outcome of the appeal) which prompted me to contact the property management company and my landlady. It turned out that new permits had been issued but my landlady had never received any correspondence about it or a new permit. The permits are identical in appearance with the exception of a serial number on, so when looking at other cars it wasn't obvious/clear that permits had changed. A third PCN appeared while waiting for a replacement permit to come in the post. I managed to get the first and third PCN cancelled through complaints to the management company however they wouldn't budge on the second PCN.

I've attached a photo of the PCN and the amended SAR. Should I keep in my request about clarification on the permits and why they were changed? I can only go off assumptions and things a neighbour told me in the car park, I have no facts.

Thank you in advance.

[ostell]

You seem friendly with your landlady so could you ask her if her lease gives the right to park or the lease includes a parking space within it.

This seems to be a common practise by parking companies. Change the permit to catch people out. Part of your defence would be that they had failed to notify you of any changes and that you had followed their instructions by displaying a permit

What do the signs say?

[otterface]

I actually have a copy of the lease already. I asked her for a copy of it when the appeals were going on in an attempt to be organised (also to make sure I wasn't fighting a losing battle). From what I remember there is a section on parking but I will dig it out and review it.

The signs have actually changed since then. NWFEE changed from BPA to IPC on 1/1/17 and they didn't change them until mid-April time. I've attached a photo of the parking sign at the time.

[ostell]

That's a forbidding sign, saying no unauthorised parking. They can't on one had state no unauthorised parking and on the other hand state that they have created a contract that was breached by the driver. The only claimant can be the landowner for trespass

Glad you've got the lease. If there is parking associated with the flat then they have been using land they do not have rights to use as a business. On Pepipoo someone counterclaimed for this misuse to the tune of £6000. Case ongoing.

[otterface]

So I've just had a look at the lease and on the front page it says that the specific parking space the car is parked in (and was for all three PCNs) forms part of the 'premises':



So I will post off my SAR and letter to Gladstones and wait to hear back from them. Is there anything else I need to do in the meantime?

[ostell]

That is good.

Is there anything about the terms of the lease being allowed to be varied?

Another letter to Gladstones, or addition to the previous letter suggested.

Tell them that the lease for the property includes provision for the use of the space where the car was parked, without any requirement for the display of a permit or a payment to a third party stranger to the lease for non display. Would they care to explain why their client, a third party stranger to the lease, believes that they have the authority to operate a business on the space you already have leased to you and is derogation of grant.

If they continue with this claim you will counterclaim for the misuse of your space and breach of your data protection rights as their client had no reasonable reason to obtain your details from the DVLA.. The claim will be on the basis of their clients claim of £100 per day for the period they have been operating.

You must talk to your landlady to make sure she is on board. If you hit hard it will make it easier for other tenants later

[otterface]

I've read through the lease and I can find these two paragraphs:



I did previously check with the landlord and they don't have any amendments to the lease, this is the only document they have.

I don't know whether they did get my details from the DVLA as I appealed using their appeals process online - I'm not 100% how they are pursuing me (registered keeper/driver). I wasn't aware of NtK at that point and the time frame they need to send it in etc.

Are there any other changes I should be making to the SAR or letter to Gladstones (aside from what you mentioned in your last post. I think I will send that separately so I have time to speak to my landlord).

[otterface]

Hi ostell

I sent off both letters last week and have had a response from Gladstones:



My letter had requested that the cease processing until I've had the information requested in the SAR. I also requested that they provide me a copy of everything they intend to rely on in court but there is no reference to that in this letter. Do I respond to them and say that I wasn't requesting that they cease processing indefinitely, only until I have enough information so I can better understand the claim? I'm assuming in their eyes the clock is now ticking for me to 'respond' to the claim.

Thank you in advance!