sjpn for No insurance - will loose licence

[harimalone]

You've provided it to the court and since you don't have a contact for the prosecution I think that's the best you can be expected to do.

The issue really is that your hearing isn't a trial. It's a guilty plea with a Special Reasons argument. I would just go with what you have on the day. The worst that can happen would be for the prosecution to ask for an adjournment to consider the evidence you will use for your argument. In all honesty, if they do, the court should give them short shrift (and maybe a ten minute break to consider it) as it isn't really complex.

Thanks for this. Since I have emailed the court and mentioned my partner can possibly give live evidence how does this process work I just bring her on the day and I ask her to recollect what happened ? Or the prosecution will also cross examine ? Given they haven’t been in communication do u think they will even want to cross examine my partner ? Is my case better with or without my partner

[islandgirl]

Better with. She will give her evidence and then the prosecution will have a chance to cross examine. Yes I think they will do so if she appears.

[harimalone]

Better with. She will give her evidence and then the prosecution will have a chance to cross examine. Yes I think they will do so if she appears.

What’s the process of me bringing her in ? Just mention to the court when my hearing starts? As you and Andy mentioned witnesses have to sit elsewhere untill there portion begins

[HandyAndy]

"Thanks for this. Since I have emailed the court and mentioned my partner can possibly give live evidence how does this process"

You need to mention the statement to the court's Legal Advisor. The statement should be disclosed to the prosecutor who should say whether or not he agrees to it. If he does, you can simply read it to the court as part of your defence and it cannot be challenged. If he does not, your partner will be required to give evidence and may then be cross-examined.

[harimalone]

You need to mention the statement to the court's Legal Advisor. The statement should be disclosed to the prosecutor who should say whether or not he agrees to it. If he does, you can simply read it to the court as part of your defence and it cannot be challenged. If he does not, your partner will be required to give evidence and may then be cross-examined.

wait so the prosecutor could potentially refuse me to allow me to bring / read out my partners witness statement ? Is this normal ? How can I go around this given it’s crucial to my SR agreement

[HandyAndy]

wait so the prosecutor could potentially refuse me to allow me to bring / read out my partners witness statement ? Is this normal ? How can I go around this given it’s crucial to my SR agreement

Statements can only be used in court if the opposing side agrees to their contents. Then they can simply be read as part of evidence and must be accepted by the court as they stand.

If they oppose it, then the statement maker must attend court to give "live" evidence (basically testifying what was written in the statement). They can then be cross-examined to test the strength of that evidence. If the statement maker does not attend, his or her evidence cannot be used.

This is the same principle to your objection to the officer's statement which said he saw you or your partner attempting to secure cover. (and which forms your "basis of plea"). If the prosecution wants to rely on that evidence, the officer must attend and provide it in person, so that you can cross-examine them. Your cross examination would be along the lines of "How do you know what either I or my partner was doing on the phone? How can you be sure we were seeking to obtain cover after you had stopped us?"

If she is with you in court it isn't a problem but the prosecution must be given the opportunity to consider your partner's statement and decide whether or not to insist she gives live evidence. That's why I suggested submitting it upfront because that decision must be taken before you present your SR argument (so that she can, if necessary, remain outside the courtroom until she gives her evidence).

I strongly suspect that if either (a) the prosecution rejects your basis of plea which will mean a Newton Hearing is required or (b) they object to your partner's statement meaning that she has to give live evidence, they will adjourn the case to another hearing so that more time can be allocated. Hopefully neither of those will happen.

[harimalone]

Statements can only be used in court if the opposing side agrees to their contents. Then they can simply be read as part of evidence and must be accepted by the court as they stand.

If they oppose it, then the statement maker must attend court to give "live" evidence (basically testifying what was written in the statement). They can then be cross-examined to test the strength of that evidence. If the statement maker does not attend, his or her evidence cannot be used.

This is the same principle to your objection to the officer's statement which said he saw you or your partner attempting to secure cover. (and which forms your "basis of plea"). If the prosecution wants to rely on that evidence, the officer must attend and provide it in person, so that you can cross-examine them. Your cross examination would be along the lines of "How do you know what either I or my partner was doing on the phone? How can you be sure we were seeking to obtain cover after you had stopped us?"

If she is with you in court it isn't a problem but the prosecution must be given the opportunity to consider your partner's statement and decide whether or not to insist she gives live evidence. That's why I suggested submitting it upfront because that decision must be taken before you present your SR argument (so that she can, if necessary, remain outside the courtroom until she gives her evidence).

I strongly suspect that if either (a) the prosecution rejects your basis of plea which will mean a Newton Hearing is required or (b) they object to your partner's statement meaning that she has to give live evidence, they will adjourn the case to another hearing so that more time can be allocated. Hopefully neither of those will happen.

This clears things up for me. In a case like this how often do prosecution refuse the opposite parties statement ? Especially given I’m pleading guilty would they just allow me to continue and accept or will they fight this given it helps my SR case.

When I attend court can I speak to the prosecutor and say I’m happy to plead guilty on the basis you allow me witness statement to stand as evidence ?

[harimalone]

This clears things up for me. In a case like this how often do prosecution refuse the opposite parties statement ? Especially given I’m pleading guilty would they just allow me to continue and accept or will they fight this given it helps my SR case.

When I attend court can I speak to the prosecutor and say I’m happy to plead guilty on the basis you allow me witness statement to stand as evidence ?

On the online website for city magistrates (which I’m not attending) it states babies are allowed and over 14 years old given I have a young baby can I bring this child because partner will be there to give evidence.

[islandgirl]

Not allowed in court

[HandyAndy]

Not allowed in court

Yes, IG is right. Some courts may have special arrangements (though I doubt it). Best to contact the court concerned to find out.

The problem your partner will have is that if and when she is required to give evidence, she will have to enter the witness box and I'm quite sure that no court will allow babes in arms there, or anywhere else in the "well" of the court (that's the part where all those participating sit).

It's a nuisance really that you cannot establish whether or not her statement will be accepted by the prosecution. An alternative is to "wing it" and turn up with the statement but without her. The downside to that is that if the prosecution does object to her statement being read, they will request (and probably be granted) an adjournment to a date when she can attend.

I have to say that from what I have seen of "Special Reasons" arguments, the prosecution tends not to put up too much of a fight. They have their guilty plea and they don't usually show too much concern for the sentencing. But you have the added problem of getting them to agree to your "basis of plea" and your partner's testimony will greatly add to that being accepted. .

[islandgirl]

Funnily enough I heard a special reasons case today in court although it was not related to no insurance. Guilty plea to substantive offence already made. Police officer gave evidence for the prosecution. Another PC's evidence was agreed. Driver gave evidence in his defence and had paid a barrister to speak for him. Application failed.

[harimalone]

Yes, IG is right. Some courts may have special arrangements (though I doubt it). Best to contact the court concerned to find out.

The problem your partner will have is that if and when she is required to give evidence, she will have to enter the witness box and I'm quite sure that no court will allow babes in arms there, or anywhere else in the "well" of the court (that's the part where all those participating sit).

It's a nuisance really that you cannot establish whether or not her statement will be accepted by the prosecution. An alternative is to "wing it" and turn up with the statement but without her. The downside to that is that if the prosecution does object to her statement being read, they will request (and probably be granted) an adjournment to a date when she can attend.

I have to say that from what I have seen of "Special Reasons" arguments, the prosecution tends not to put up too much of a fight. They have their guilty plea and they don't usually show too much concern for the sentencing. But you have the added problem of getting them to agree to your "basis of plea" and your partner's testimony will greatly add to that being accepted. .

Understood, will have to make arrangements - I prefer to get this over and done with it’s been hanging over my head for months.

the basis of plea portion. Quick question upon reading the court documents again on the statement of facts portion it only states I was driving at 12:15 and was pulled over with no insurance. But there is a section of police statement which essentially says “the driver was unable to show documents and showed us a while later with a start time of 12:30 so it’s clear this was purchased after the stop.” Not sure if I’m being picky but how can an officer of the law put something like that in a court document I could of purchased the insurance 3 days prior and selected 12:30 on that day. Regardless does the statement of fact get used or the witness statement abit confused.

[harimalone]

Funnily enough I heard a special reasons case today in court although it was not related to no insurance. Guilty plea to substantive offence already made. Police officer gave evidence for the prosecution. Another PC's evidence was agreed. Driver gave evidence in his defence and had paid a barrister to speak for him. Application failed.

interesting. Giver pc gave evidence im assuming it’s of criminal nature offence, which is harder to qualify.

quick question I have plead guilty but I have my hearing in coming days - excluding an adjournment do they usually deal with this all in one day ? I went to the court today and read the schedule looks like they book all the afternoon sessions to all start at the same time ? Like 7/8 hearings must be hard work

[islandgirl]

All booked to start same time - you have to be there for a morning or afternoon session. You book in then wait in the corridor to be heard. How many we do in a day depends on the nature of the work. Yesterday's special reasons was a fail to provide a specimen.

[harimalone]

All booked to start same time - you have to be there for a morning or afternoon session. You book in then wait in the corridor to be heard. How many we do in a day depends on the nature of the work. Yesterday's special reasons was a fail to provide a specimen.

for the afternoon sessions that start at 2pm what time would you expect me to be finished by? Also if I ask for prioritisation because of childcare responsibilities would they accept this