"Keeping" a Vehicle without insurance

[Pandion23]

I have a fine for an offence under section 144A of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

My bike was off the road (in a garage) on the date of the offence, with Tax and MOT but not insurance. The Procurator Fiscal (Scotland obviously) was apparently informed by the DVLA. As soon as the tax ran out it was SORN but this was 1 month after the date of the offence.

I have read the relevant sections of the Act and am aware that of the exception in section 144B (5) and the corresponding subsection (7) requiring a declaration.

Although this appears to me quite cut and dry it also seems very unjust given that I was not using the vehicle without insurance. My tax is only £17 a year and so without knowing the law in detail there appeared to be no reason for me to SORN until the tax ran out.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance,

Lou

[des8]

Re: "Keeping" a Vehicle without insurance

Hi and welcome to LB.

Unfortunately ignorance of the law [in detail or otherwise] is no excuse.
A vehicle not sorned has to be insured.

The continuous insurance requirement has been in place for nearly six years, and whilst it seems unfair to many, it is now the law and aplea of ignorance isn't going to help.

[Fair-Parking]

Re: "Keeping" a Vehicle without insurance

No it doesn't. It needs to confirm with the Road Traffic Act 1988 143 Section 1 - and that only requires insurance indemnity cover whilst a vehicle is on the road or in a public place. 114 5B needs to be read more closely.

The DVLA is always attempting to pull this trick. Insurance is nothing to do with them and their employees are not trained in that profession. They confuse the requirements of SORN with something they know nothing about

[paulajayne]

Re: "Keeping" a Vehicle without insurance

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ile_also_taxed

[R0b]

Re: "Keeping" a Vehicle without insurance

No it doesn't. It needs to confirm with the Road Traffic Act 1988 143 Section 1 - and that only requires insurance indemnity cover whilst a vehicle is on the road or in a public place. 114 5B needs to be read more closely.

The DVLA is always attempting to pull this trick. Insurance is nothing to do with them and their employees are not trained in that profession. They confuse the requirements of SORN with something they know nothing about

Just to clarify, are you saying that the DVLA is not the enforcement body to bring claims for vehicles which are not SORN and have no insurance? If so, who is responsible for this and can you provide any evidence or information to back it up?

[Fair-Parking]

Re: "Keeping" a Vehicle without insurance

Just to clarify, are you saying that the DVLA is not the enforcement body to bring claims for vehicles which are not SORN and have no insurance? If so, who is responsible for this and can you provide any evidence or information to back it up?

Sorry to have this block. I never use these but it comes up automatically at the moment.

It would make more sense to those who think that a vehicle must be insured to realise that no vehicle is ever insured, policyholders however are indemnified to use them. Storing a vehicle takes away the necessity for a person to be indemnified - which is why vehicles could once be laid up on a fire and theft basis only - as many of mine were

It because the DVLA and the police mistakenly think that motor insurance applies to a vehicle and not the person that they rather stupidly rely on the motor insurance data base to look for registration numbers rather than realising that this cannot be applied as it is people who are insured.

As SORN is about vehicles and not policyholders, it doesn't apply to those who are not using a vehicle on the road or in a public place and yes I have provided evidence to magistrates courts on behalf of others - and always had the charge dropped.

[Pandion23]

Re: "Keeping" a Vehicle without insurance

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies an advice, I am continuing to look into this before making any move.

Fair parking, are you able to supply references or links to further information about what you are saying?

Thanks, Lou

[des8]

Re: "Keeping" a Vehicle without insurance

It would make more sense to those who think that a vehicle must be insured to realise that no vehicle is ever insured, policyholders however are indemnified to use them. .

Being a bit pedantic here!
RTA 1988 Sec 143 requires there to be "in relation to the use of the vehicle by that person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complies with the requirements of this Part of this Act"
The Act also refers to a " vehicle ..... does not meet the insurance requirements,"
Now if an act of parliament implies vehicles are insured, I would not wish to argue the point in any court!.


Current motor policies, in relation to driving other vehicles extention will state something along the lines of: "cover is not provided unless a current and valid policy of insurance is in force for the vehicle being drivenunder this section of this policy".

So whilst a contract of insurance is to compensate the policyholder in the event of specified uncertain future events it is quite permissible to speak of insuring specified vehicles because policies are issued in relation to specified vehicles.

RTA 1988 sec 144 A plus The Motor Vehicles (Insurance Requirements) Regulations 2011 make interesting reading,(together with The Motor Vehicles (Compulsory Insurance) (InformationCentre and Compensation Body) Regulations 2003), and I commend them to anyone thinking of challenging DVLA

[Pandion23]

Re: "Keeping" a Vehicle without insurance

Since the original post I have done quite a bit of research and phoning about so just incase anyone else finds themselves in a similar position to me, this is how the story went..

As of the 2011, the continuous insurance enforcement (CIE) scheme has had the motor insurance bureaux (MIB) and the DVLA cross referencing vehicle registration numbers between their databases. Any vehicles taxed but not insured (according to the databases) will flag up and the registered keeper will receive an Insurance Advisory Letter (IAL) from MIB, this is only a warning to give people the opportunity to SORN or insure their vehicle. I believe a months grace is given but I don't know for sure.

If no action is taken, the DVLA will send a fixed penalty notice for £100, or £50 if paid within 21 days.

In my case, MIB could not confirm whether they sent me an IAL but the DVLA did confirm that they sent two letters which I also did not receive. I believe this to be the result of a family member throwing my mail away. As a result I did not pay the fixed penalty and it went to court. The first I heard of any of it was when I got a phone call to say the police had a warrant out to arrest me if I did not pay a fine of which I knew nothing about.

- - - Updated - - -

Further info about CIE can be found here...
https://d10ou7l0uhgg4f.cloudfront.ne...eaflet2010.pdf

[Fair-Parking]

Re: "Keeping" a Vehicle without insurance

Deleted - double posting