Finance company refused to collect car

[Llleonidus]

Hello. ive just had an inspection done today on my nearly 12 year jaguar that I've owned for 2.5 years I've recently hit the 50% mark and requested a vt. The man came and done and inspection and told me he has to put the smallest marks down, well the vehicle is in excellent condition for 11 years apart from a few wheel scuffs. He came up with a figure of £2,300 which is crazy considering the car is only worth £2000, I then refused to sign the condition report and then received a call from the finance company saying I'm breaching my terms and conditions as the vehicle isn't in a reasonable condition and unless I sign the paper work they won't collect. I then asked where should I send the log book off to as I've informed them I want to vt and I'll be parking the car down the road. We basically ended up in an argument with her talking over me constantly. The lovely chap who the done inspection drove off. I've just sent them an email with a video and pictures of the car showing Its in excellent condition and you can't see a scratch on it. How he came up with that figure I have no idea. Not one dent or deep scratch. And in his words nothing that won't polish out Any way I left the call saying I was parking it at the end of the road and she said she was writing all I was saying on my file in an intimidating manner. She was referring to her manager and that was the end of the call.

Panicking a bit now that I'll be stuck with the car. I've kept up the servicing on it and it has an mot. And the engine is sound. The Inspector made a comment about how it's in better condition than his 4 year old car, but they've told him to have zero tolerance, the car was 9 years old when I got it. I owe £3500 and it's probably worth 2k. I've cancelled the direct debit but will have to reset it up if they refuse to collect so it doesn't effect my credit. So where do I go from here? Any help would be great right now.

[Llleonidus]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

So I contacted the ombudsman who talked through everything with me. I then send her a load pictures and videos showing the car to be in a more than reasonable condition and also pointed out statements from cca and also the contract from close brothers. she is going to contact them and then they have 8 weeks to give me a decision. then I can escalate it. I don't really know what to do with payments as I've informed them I've vt'ed my options are to keep paying it or ruin my near perfect credit score as I'm sure they'll put defaults on it and they haven't collected the car. I've never heard of a finance company refusing to collect due to imaginary damage. I guess they're Playing on the not being in reasonable condition part of the cca. I still didn't know they could refuse to collect. I'll keep this thread updated.

[R0b]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

Hello

First things first I suggest you take a read of this if you haven't done so already to give you a better understanding of your position -> http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...on-Your-rights

Once you've had a good read, the next step is not to rush or make any rash decisions without knowing the consequences.

You have given notice to terminate and the agent has come out to inspect the car, so depending on how you gave notice i.e. email or letter the agreement has nonetheless been terminated. As you have already reached the 50% mark you do not need to pay any more instalments so you can keep the DD cancelled.

If you have got evidence that the car is in great condition given its age then you shouldn't have anything to worry about. There is really two ways you can go about this - the softly approach, or the more aggressive approach.

The softly approach will be going down the formal complaint route to Close Brothers (up to 8 weeks as Ombudsman has said) and then going to the Financial Ombudsman if you are still not happy with the result. If it goes down this route and are confident the car is in excellent condition, you may be able to claim compensation for distress and inconvenience but it is discretionary.

The aggressive approach will consist of writing to Close Brothers, explaining that an agent has come out to inspect the car, assessed damages at £2,300 which you wholly disagree with. Any dispute as regards to the condition of the car does not negate their obligation to come and take the car away. If the car is on your drive then you could also make reference to the fact that it is sitting on your land which you no longer give permission for and they are therefore trespassing.

You can either suggest that if they do not make arrangements to collect the car within 14 days you will ensure that the tax and insurance is cancelled, notify the DVLA that they are the registered keeper and remove the vehicle from your drive and put it on a public highway. You will no longer be liable past that point and any losses suffered will be at their own risk.

The alternative is to tell them that they have 28 days to collect the car otherwise in accordance with the Torts (Interference With Goods) Act 1977, you shall consider the car as abandoned and will have the right to sell the car. You will then contact them to arrange transfer of the proceeds of sale.

Usually one of the two options above will work or you can take the longer route and go through the formal complaint / Ombudsman process.

[Llleonidus]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

Thanks for your reply rob, I've been reading some of you replies to others and must say you are a god send to us people who are struggling with these finance companies.

I've told the ombudsman to hold off contacting the finance company and further to your reply, I'm going to take the hard approach and believe me when I say I'll follow it through.

Here's a letter I'm going to send them.

As per the legal requirement the vehicle need only be in a reasonable condition as per your own contract but more importantly as written in the consumer credit act (section 100), which is law and can not be over ruled. the vehicle has been regularly serviced and has a current mot, has 4 excellent tyres, with no engine management lights on the dash, a sound engine with no faults and no dents of any kind which in its self could be considered reasonable. also i would like to point out the inspector informed me he was to have a zero tolerance policy on the vehicle when its comes to scratches and to write down and charge for every single one he finds (as instructed by you) which would not be taking fair wear and tear in account as stated in my contract, i quote "you must maintain the goods in good and reasonable order and condition at your expense, you are responsible for all loss of or damage to, the goods, except for a due to fair wear and tear". common sense would dictate that a vehicle of nearly 12 years old would have some stone chips miner scuffs and scratches. Also i would like to emphasise that the vehicle was over 9 years old when i started the hire agreement, again a common sense approach would indicate that there was wear and tear on the vehicle already. The vehicle inspector also confirmed that i was being billed for perishing rubbers around the windows and other things that were purely down to the car being as old as it is which is again a breach of contract.

Apart from fair and tear age related marks the vehicle has been kept in accordance with the contract i signed so therefore any further charges could be construed as a penalty for the voluntary termination which is illegal under the consumer credit act and also goes against your contact i quote " You have a right to end this agreement. To do so, you should write to the person you make your payments to. They will then be entitled to the return of the goods and to half the total amount payable under this agreement, that is £3,477.60. If you have already paid at least this amount plus any over due installments and have taken reasonable care of the goods, you will not have to pay anymore.

You refused to take the vehicle away unless i signed a damage liability report which is a clear breach of my legal right to end the contract. You said sign the agreement and we'll take the car don't sign and we wont take it which personally i felt was bully tactics in order to get me to pay a huge damage report which is worth more than the car it's self. And it also breached my right to terminate at any time (cca section 99(1). I am under no legal obligation to sign any report

your excessive bill is clearly an attempt to stop me excercizing my legal right to vt. The bill is for damages to the body of the car which has no dents or majoe scratches or scuffs just average wear and tear for a vehicle of nearly 12 years.

The direct debit will remain cancelled and no further money will be claimed by you. The vehicle is no longer taxed or insured as of the date stated on the vt. Your property
Is now trespassing on my land and if not removed within the next 7 days I will be dropping it off on at a location of my choosing which you will be notified of. I have many pictures and videos showing the vehicle to be in a more that reasonable condition therefore any court action or adverse marks on my credit file will be robustly defended.

Is it to long? Am I'm jabbering on?


Thanks.

[R0b]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

Hello, how about something below

Dear Sir

NOTICE OF INTENTION TO SELL UNDER THE TORTS (INTERFERENCE WITH GOODS) ACT 1977

Agreement number:
Vehicle Registration:

I writing in in relation with the above matter and in connection with giving notice to voluntarily terminate my hire purchase agreement. Your vehicle is currently parked on my drive and despite a number of requests to arrange collection, you have so far refused to do anything about it. Your vehicle is no longer authorised to remain on my property and continued refusal to remove it will constitute trespass. You will be aware that upon giving my notice to terminate, a reasonable was given time to collect the vehicle however you have so far refused to do so. Although there is a dispute as regards to the condition of the vehicle, this does not negate your obligation to remove it from my property.

In accordance with section 12 of the above Act, this letter is intended to give notice that unless the vehicle is collected by [28 DAYS] December 2016, the vehicle will be deemed as abandoned and arrangements shall be made for it to be sold at the nearest auction, and no longer will I be liable for any losses suffered by you. I am rightfully entitled to deduct any costs associated with the sale of the vehicle including storage costs, in which case, a charge of £10 per day shall be levied (beginning on the date of this letter) until the vehicle is removed and sold. Once the vehicle has been sold, I will contact you further to arrange for the remaining proceeds to be transferred to a bank account of your choosing.

The vehicle is available for collection from my address at the head of this letter and I would suggest that you contact me on [NUMBER] to arrange a suitable time.

I look forward to hearing from you by [DATE].

[R0b]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

The above letter is the more aggressive approach. Because you have terminated your agreement you have become an involuntary bailee, that is someone who is in possession of goods which don't belong to them although you do have an obligation to take reasonable care of it in the meantime.

Section 12 of the TORTS (INTERFERENCE WITH GOODS) ACT 1977 gives you the legal right to sell the goods if you have received no response from the owner within a reasonable time. Normally a reasonable time is usually 14 days but given that you are going to be selling the goods I would err on the side of caution and allow 28 days.

It is important to note that once you sell the goods you do have an obligation to give the proceeds to the owners, so don't go spending it.

[Llleonidus]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

Well rob i have an update.

I sent the letter off last night and just received a call from the collection company saying they will collect with no inspection this time.

Obviously this won't be the end of the matter but the car will be collected sonat least I'm not stuck with it.

I'll keep everyone updated but so far so good.

[R0b]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

Well its a start anyway, always amusing to see lenders insist that they won't collect the car for one reason or another yet when you threaten to sell it they suddenly make a u-turn.

At least they are coming to collect it now though

[Llleonidus]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

I've received an email today saying I still owe the money and that with the vat it's almost 3k. They refer to bvrla guidelines and a break down of the ridiculous damage report. Fictitious marks with no picture evidence and every mark zoomed right in to look worse, 90% of the damages are for paint marks so if it ever did go to court I could argue I could respray for less than 1k.

I'm not going to argue until they've actually collected the vehicle.

i know no one can truly answer this but in your experience how inforceable is their claim? As it's such a large amount I wonder if they would chance it in court. Surely no judge would rule against me armed with the CCA and a 100 pictures showing every angle of the car.

[R0b]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

They have to prove that the damages were beyond reasonable. If they have zoomed into the pictures and they are then become blurry or pixelated then its likely to be difficult for them to enforce.

Here is a quote from a Court of Appeal Brady v St Margaret's Trust 1963 that will support your claim.

I would like to say that it is not right to assess damages under this head on the basis suggested to us by Mr. Harris, namely, that you are to take the initial price as evidence of the condition of the car. The price in these hire-purchase agreements is no guide to the condition of a car. There should be evidence by the hire-purchase company to show the condition of the goods at the time the agreement was made and to show how far the hirer has defaulted under it. As I read this clause, the hirer's duty is to keep the car in the condition in which it might reasonably be expected to be if he had looked after it properly. He need not put it in a better condition than it was when he hired it. He need only keep it in the condition in which a reasonably minded hirer would keep it. Thus he would repair it if there was an accident, and he would do the immediate repairs in the course of running the car, but no more. The hire-purchase company should give evidence of any default on his part in that duty.

I am going to assume that there was no inspection when you initially took the car so you could play them at their own game and state that you fully deny the charges for excess damage (attach again a handful of photographs which backs up your claim) and in any event, how can they prove that the alleged damage (which is denied) happened whilst in your possession, if there was no initial inspection with photographs, then they simply have no claim as they have nothing to compare it against, except your photographs of course.

Just need to keep an eye on your credit file as they may put a default marker on there.

[Llleonidus]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

No vehicle report was done when I originally signed the agreement. He zoomed in when taking the photos so they are not pixilated. Although I'm in the rare position of having their report and the car so I can take more photos tomorrow with a ruler to counter.

I feel semi ready for what they're going to throw at me, after hours of reading threads on similar situations on this site. Thank you for your help so far I really do appreciate it and it's put my mind at rest, it's all about sticking to your guns with them. I'm sure I'll be back for more advice sooner rather than later.

[Llleonidus]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

UPDATE.

I received a call from close brothers complaints department a few weeks ago as I wrote complaint on one of my emails to them.

The lady was unaware that they even collected the car. And asked me to do an independent damage report. Which I happily informed her that as they had refused to collect the car but issued me with a damage report I did in fact get an independent report done and it was much lower than theirs, the inspector had even wrote comments to show the vehicle was nearly show room condition. I then informed her they had actually collected the vehicle 4 days later after I sent an email to them saying I would remove from my property and sent a ton of pictures showing the vehicle to be in great condition she seemed surprised that they had taken the vehicle and asked me if I wanted to close the complaint. I responded saying that depends if they are still chasing me for the 3k. She was going to do some investigating and get back to me.

Fast forward until today and I received a letter from close brothers. Saying that it was in fact me who had refused collection of the vehicle after the damage report And then I carried out my own vehicle inspection and repaired the vehicle to the required standard at my own expense and they then collected and they can now confirm that the account in settled in full with no further liability to me. They didn't ask to see my report.

And then go on to state that they can not uphold my complaint and this is their final decision.


Seems a strange thing to say considering This is the outcome I wanted. Account settled with no more liability. I guess they're referring to my initial complaint that the vehicle was in good condition and they're saying that It wasn't so they can't uphold my complaint.

any way who cares at the end of the day it seems to be done and dusted and I have a letter in my possession from them saying that the account is settled with no more liability. But we all know how they can pop back up with their demands at a later date.

[R0b]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

Glad to hear it is sorted now, that's the end result make sure to keep a copy of that letter safe keeping and also just make sure there is no adverse markers on your credit file either.

[Llleonidus]

Re: Finance company refused to collect car

Had another letter saying I owe an additional £1600 due to the short fall from the account balance and the sale of the vehicle. It was a exact copy of letter someone else posted on another thread. I copied your excellent template and replied stating that my liability is 50% and they were being put on notice that court action would be taken if any adverse marks were placed on my credit file.

Their arrears letter quoted the consumer credit act section 86b.... "that the total sum paid under the agreement by him is less than the total sum which he is required to have paid before that time"

This doesn't really make any sense to me as in order to voluntary terminate one is only required to pay 50%. So once I had reached that point I had met the requirement in which s-86b is referring to.

Seems like they're clutching at straws. Anyway I've just received an email stating that the arrears letter was automated and the account had been closed.

so in summary they had chased me for an initial £3000 for damage to the vehicle once I had counted that argument they then chased me for an additional £1600. That's £4600 they have pursued me for and they received a grand total of.......zero. i now have a letter and an email saying no adverse credit markers will be placed on my file and the account is closed. All because of this site. Thank you.