Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

[Laurenelias]

Hello,

We have recently returned a 3 year old car under voluntary termination with GMAC. The car has done 56000 miles. We refused to sign the original voluntary termination letter sent by GMAC much to their dismay and instead sent our own letter using a template we found on here when the car was collected we also refused to sign to agree to the inspection report and instead signed to say we disagreed with the findings (we have evidence showing that we signed to say we disagreed)

Since then we have received a letter from shoo smiths for £978.50 worth of damages. The photographs they have sent are not clear as to what the damage is they are trying to show? Also there are various 'damages' that I can not see how they can't be fair wear & tear. For example there are light scratches to the bumper up to 25mm which we are being charged £101.50 for, £96 for small dent to the boot and one door which state they are 10-30mm (what does that even mean? I thought small dents were acceptable as fair wear & tear as long as the primer or paint was not showing which it isn't) chips to the windscreen (I accept that these might fall outside of fair wear & tear. Also they are charging £196 for contamination to the bonnet. I can't see anything in the photo and on inspection day I also couldn't see what the guy was talking about. £294 for a ripple on the back side panel? The guy just kept showing me a ruler and saying 'look see how it's not flat and straight' But the car isn't flat as its design is rounded edges etc so why would the ruler sit flush?! Anyway I can't see what they are talking about in the photograph either.

I have been in touch with the BVRLA but have found out that GMAC are not members therefore the BVRLA won't help us. I also know the car has been sold already at auction so I can't even request to have an independent engineer go and assess the so called damages.

Where do we stand on this? I have sent an email outlining that I want to know what guidance GMAC use for what constitutes as fair wear & tear and that I have never signed any documentation agreeing to the damages not any documation sent via GMAC prior to the collection of the car (I didn't sign because they had written a checklist stating the car must only have fair wear and tear etc but not specified what that actually meant so I refused to sign it or return it) does fair wear & tear become different the amount of mileage a car has done or is it only relevant to its age?

I'm happy to pay what I feel constitutes paying for such as the chips to the windscreen (if I am right in thinking that that doesn't count as fair wear & tear??) but I'm certainly not happy to pay for damage that I can't even see and disagree with.

Any advice is greatly received. Thank you

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Hi Lauren,

If you have not done so already, take a look at my thread on voluntary termination in my signature below although it sounds like you may have already done so.

There's a couple of GMAC threads floating around here which may be worth a read you can find them below, they contain some response letters to GMAC and Shoosmiths.

GMAC Thread 1

GMAC Thread 2

The only is only required to be in a reasonable condition and that is usually subjective. There are numerous arguments you can make to defend this but they will keep pressing. Have they given you a breakdown of the charges? How old is the car?

[Laurenelias]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Hello,

the he car is 3 years old. We bought it from new. It has done 56000 miles. Yes they have given us a breakdown of the costs but for certain some things to me seem like they would be fair wear and tear such as light scratches under 25mm which they are charging £101.50 for. I have looked at your thread and found it very useful although it worries me that I am going to have a huge battle on my hands and at 7 months pregnant I really don't want or need the stress

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

hi Lauren, Lender's may sometimes over inflate the price of repairs so as to recover the sums they may have lost out on the agreement as the value of the car will have depreciated. They may be charging prices which are at the top end of the scale or may not even cost anywhere near it. If the car was returned in a reasonable condition taking into account stone chips, small scratches and even minor dents then that I wouldn't worry too much about it and just send of a response back to them denying that the car was in a bad condition.

Unless you've been rallying around and the car is actually in a bad condition, the law is in your favour, I cannot think or have heard of any persons that has gone to court and the lender has won. Even if they have won, I am not aware of any substantial sums being awarded.

Your liability is restricted and the lenders are aware of this so they try to circumvent that by adding damages to the report saying that the car was not in a reasonable condition. They need to mitigate their losses and selling at auction is not the best way to sell a car. They would also need to prove that the car is in an unreasonable condition, which is difficult in itself. They are saying that they have suffered losses but if you ask for evidence of those losses they wont give you any and tell you they don't need to. But if they went to court they would need evidence to support their case.

I appreciate the circumstances but I can only advise you on this and it is ultimately up to you. Circumstances such as these are not that stressful although I do understand they can be intimidating. They are relying on this so that you will get scared and just pay up so they in the end they win anyway.

If you don;t want to fight it, then pay them the amount. If you do wish to fight it then it is best to stick to your guns rather than back tracking later down the line because they'll know they have you bent over a barrel.

[Laurenelias]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Hello,

no out of principle I will fight until the end! Haha! I find these kind of situations quite stressful but they are all a learning curve which I also quite enjoy in a weird way. The car was in good condition, fully serviced, clean on the inside and outside with no major bumps or deep scratches. Just minor dents and light scratches. They are trying to claim for contamination to the bonnet and also a warp to the back panel, neither of which I can see in the photographs they have sent. I have sent an email outlining that I disagree with the findings and want to know what guidance GMAC are using as to what is reasonable/fair wear & tear. I have also said that I haven't signed anything including the inspection report and the voluntary termination pack sent by GMAC. I also said I want an independent engineer to come and look at the vehicle as I can't see the 'damage' in the photographs and I didn't see it either when he inspector was here.

Can i argue that Manheim aren't independent as they obviously work with GMAC regularly inspecting and then selling their cars at auction? Surely they are working together in the sense that Manheim are picking up damages that are ridiculous to claim
for and then will be getting commission from the sale of GMAC cars?

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

GMAC will be relying on the fair wear and tear BVRLA guidelines, I talked a little about it in my guidance. Yes you could argue Manheim more than likely have an agreement with GMAC and therefore are likely to favour GMAC as opposed to yourself. Thinking about it, Manheim are an auction company and I am not aware that they do repairs for people but I could be wrong on this.

Manheim do have a grading system when they auction their vehicles from 1 to 5.

Grade 1
The vehicle may have minor interior and exterior defects that require SMART repairs, such as minor scratches or dents, and minor parts may need replacing. These will be recorded on the appraisal.

Grade 2
These vehicles may require repairs as Grade 1, plus up to 1 major or minor body shop repair to an individual panel or bumper. The replacement of more significant internal or external trim parts (excluding panels) might also be required. These will also be recorded on the appraisal.

Grade 3
These vehicles may require repairs as Grades 1 & 2, plus as many as up to 5 minor body shop repairs, 3 major body shop repairs, or a combination of major and minor repairs. The vehicle may require a replacement bumper, but not two. These details will be recorded on the appraisal.

Grade 4
These vehicles may require Grades 1, 2 & 3 repairs. It may have a combination of repairs including a replacement panel; this will exclude structural panels such as roofs and quarter panels. This information will be recorded on the appraisal.

Grade 5
These vehicles may require Grades 1, 2, 3 & 4 repairs. This might mean that it needs a combination of repairs, plus the vehicle may have sustained collision damage and the replacement of up to two structural panels may be required, providing there is no other damage on the vehicle. These will be recorded on the appraisal.

Grade U
Vehicles in this grade are simply uneconomical to appraise and fall into one of the following categories.
• Substantial Accident damage
• Major Parts Missing
• Multiple recorded items exceeding the criteria of Grade 5
• Multiple unrecorded items

The charges by Manheim I presume is probably a valuation of the vehicle in its current condition and what it is likely to fetch but also the costs if the vehicle were to be repaired. The charges I think, are not reflective of the how reasonable the car is in but simply what it would cost to repair.

Again, an auction site is more than likely going to fetch less money than it would if it was sold privately or back into a dealership. After a quick look at their website, they actually have a re-conditioning team which repairs minor dents or scratches etc. so that the car can be sold at the highest value. Again, if GMAC choose to do that they cannot simply pass on those charges to yourself because you are only required to return it in a reasonable condition. Its unlikely they would have paid for those charges anyway.

[Laurenelias]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Hello,

surely GMAC are void in using those guidelines since they are not members of the BVRLA. I already contacted them and checked yesterday. And they cannot argue that Manheim are members since our dispute is with GMAC and therefore nothing to do with Manheim? Plus I know some of the thugs they are charging for are within the BVRLA guidelines anyway such as a scratch up to 25mm that they are charging £101.50 for. Therefore I would question all their other charges since that one doesn't follow the guidelines.
Sorry for all the questions/rambling Im just trying to get my argument together for when I inevitably get a response from shoo smiths demanding the payment and telling me I am liable haha!

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Take a look at the 2 GMAC threads I posted at the beginning there are some sample letters to Shoosmiths that might help you. Try to keep it short and to the point if possible they aren't going to budge and they will just respond back saying car not in reasonable condition pay up. Shoosmiths will refer back to GMAC for instructions and I've not seen them go to court yet but if they did, then it would be an uphill struggle from the start.

[Laurenelias]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

It also looks as though they have already auctioned the car off so I can't see what grading it was given

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Forget about the grading system, the point is that the car was returned in a reasonable condition. That is all you need to argue, if you want to get into more detail than you need to then that is up to you but you will be playing tennis with them and it will just wind you up even more which is just not worth it.

The onus is on them to prove that the vehicle was not in a reasonable condition and that if the matter is taken to court then it will be strongly defended. You could also point out that there is no point entering into any further correspondence unless GMAC wish to pursue this through the court.

[Laurenelias]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Ok I will just reply using one of the templates on your signature thanks.

is it worth me offering a settlement figure which I deem reasonable? I mean, chips on the windscreen are not covered in fair wear & tear on the BVRLA and nor is dents to alloys. Although the obviously I would rather pay nothing! But equally I am nervous about being taken to court. Or am I worrying unnecessarily?! Sorry I am a worrier about everything

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Always start with your best offer which will be 0 then work your way from there. The proof is on them to show beyond reasonable damage not you

[Laurenelias]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Always start with your best offer which will be 0 then work your way from there. The proof is on them to show beyond reasonable damage not you

Hi R0b,

I've received an email back from them now. Can I copy and paste it to you and get your advice on how to reply?

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Of course, just make sure to exclude any personal information

[Laurenelias]

Re: Voluntary termination - fair wear & tear

Thank you,

Here is the response I received yesterday. Please let me know if you want to see our original email and I'll copy that below also 🙂




Good Morning **********,



I write with reference to the above matter and further to your email below, the content of which has been noted.



After personal review of your Vehicle Inspection Report I can confirm that all damages present on the vehicle are outside of our client’s Fair Wear and Tear guidelines.



In respect of the Quarter Panel L Dent, Rear Door R Dent, Bonnet Contamination and Tailgate/Boot Dent I can confirm that, as stated within our clients fair wear and tear guidelines, the vehicle body must be sound, well maintained and free from any panel damage or disfigurement. Permanent damage to the chassis or underbody will not be acceptable.



The guidelines also state that if chips or scratches have exposed primer or bare metal, or fall outside of 25mm, some form of repair will be required to the vehicle. As the damages to the Rear Bumper Scratched and Rear Door L Scratched have exposed the bare metal underneath you will remain fully liable for these costs.



I can also confirm that the damage present to the Quarter Panel L Dent exceeds 25mm in length and is severe in nature. This cost will too remain outstanding. Damages to Alloy Wheels is accepted up to 25mm and minor scuffing is allowed. Scoring and other damage to the alloy is outside wear and tear. As the damage present to your Alloy wheel ranges from 51 – 100mm, it falls outside of Fair Wear and Tear.



Minor scuffing to Alloys Wheels is acceptable up to 25mm in length, scoring and other damage to the alloys are outside of Fair Wear and Tear. As the damage to your Alloys are visibly noticeable and outside of our client guidelines, these costs will too remain outstanding.



And in relation to the final damage of ‘Front Screen Chips’ – the guidelines advise that any holes or cracks in glass, mirrors and lenses will not be acceptable. This cost will also remain outstanding and payable to our client.



I confirm that Manheim Inspection Service inspect and collect vehicles to British Vehicle Renting and Leasing Association (BVRLA) Standards. Damages and repairs are charged at the official BVRLA rate. Vehicles returned with damages depreciates the value of my clients vehicle and this increases my clients loss when the car is sold. Repairs are legally rechargeable under the Terms and Conditions as recompense for the loss in value and also under Section 99(2) and 100(4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.



I would like to take this opportunity to confirm that the outstanding balance of £978.50 is correct and remains payable and due.



If you are not in a position to repay this amount in one lump sum, please contact the office to discuss setting up a monthly payment arrangement in view to reduce the outstanding balance.



I look forward to hearing from you shortly.



Kind Regards



Laura *********
Negotiations Case Handler

SHOOSMITHS LLP


There was also an attachment with guidelines re fair wear & tear which was the part of the original voluntary termination letter sent by GMAC which we never signed or returned much to their annoyance.