Voluntary termination of hire purchase

[Michellec80]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Right, they've sent a full breakdown of payments made by us to them for the HP agreement.

The total amount payable was: £8666.00
50% of that is:
£4333.00
The balance of our account after the last payment paid is:
£3535.08.

Now, unless I'm even more rubbish at maths than I though, how can they still insist we didn't reach the 50%?

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Have they suggested what months you have missed? I would be inclined to start a formal complaint against them and refer to the breakdown they have given you. You should be able to show from your bank statements that you have made enough payments which tips you over the 50% mark so I would double check and confirm the number of payments made. If you are correct then if it were me I would be suggesting that they review the payments allegedly made with their accounts department because it seems they are trying to deceive you into making more payments to them which of course is actionable through the courts - also worth saying that unless they have substantial evidence to prove that you have only paid £3535.08 (they shouldn't if you are right in your calculations) then you will also be reporting their conduct to the FCA.

[Michellec80]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Hi R0b. Apologies for my poor explanation. The £3535.08 is the closing balance on the account, the remainder of what we'd have had to pay if we continued with the HP agreement, so surely that proves we have reached and passed the 50% mark of £4333.00?

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Sounds like they are taking the p*** to be honest. I wouldn't bother entertaining them with back and forth emails/letters. Submit a formal complaint and if not resolved to your satisfaction then take it to the ombudsman.

Unfortunately, I have a pretty busy weekend so might be difficult to draft something up for you. If you want to have a stab at it i might time at some point to add my comments but all you need to do is summarise everything so far.

1. Why you are complaining
2. What charges you are disputing
3. Why you are being told you are in arrears yet have already been told that you surpassed the 50% mark
4. What you want out of it i.e. acknowledgement no arrears are owed, or if monthly arrears are owed a detailed explanation/evidence why.
5. if not resolved to your satisfaction you will progress your complaint to the Ombudsman

[Michellec80]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

I'll do that, thanks R0b. You've been a massive help so far. I really do appreciate it. Thank you.

[Michellec80]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Advantage Finance insist we owe all the money they are demanding. I've asked for proof of repairs. They said I should prove to them it was in an acceptable condition by sending the report from an independent inspection. I didn't have an inspection done. They said a DD mandate has been sent by post and I have to fill it in. I replied by asking for details of who I make a complaint to. They have ignored my email. I'm very angry now.

DO NOT USE ADVANTAGE FINANCE LTD!

[Michellec80]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Just got a response. "I have forwarded your complaint to the complaints manager..."

She's a clever lady because I haven't even written the complaint yet! Playing games now I think.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Just tit for tat. They would need evidence to show that the condition of the car when you returned it to them was not in a reasonable condition, how they would go about proving that I have no idea because it is subjective. And if they have not paid for the cost of the repairs then as I keep saying there is no loss to them because they've not lost anything other than receiving a quote on the repairs, which is not an indication that it is in an unreasonable condition. You could also argue that they should have conducted an initial inspection prior to the agreement being entered into so that there was proof. Why should you have to fork out money to have an independent report at the beginning of your contract when they are the ones claiming the damages.

They may have forwarded it to complaints because you are not satisfied with their response.

[Michellec80]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Reply to my complaint. The damage to the bumper was there when we entered the agreement. It was a small crack that didn't affect the safety or look of the car. It looks like I've no option other than to pay.

……………………………………

Thank you for the email that has been received on which you have raised concerns with the Voluntary Termination (VT) of the agreement and the costs that are incurred during this process.

In the email you have advised that you would like to question the amount that is owed in regards to the account being brought up to the 50% mark of the agreement. You have also requested confirmation of the repairs being completed to show that the vehicle was not in a reasonable condition when it was returned.

In order to investigate the complaint and to enable to respond in full, we have reviewed the notes on the account including any emails and calls which have taken place.

Firstly we would like to address the issues with the amount outstanding regarding the 50% of the agreement (£185.25). Within the Voluntary Termination letter it confirms-

‘Amount required to bring the account to 50% of total amount payable calculated under Section 100 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (plus any outstanding arrears, if applicable)’

At the time the VT request was received the payment due on the 2nd April 2016, had returned to us. This left the arrears of £185.25 outstanding on the account. In accordance with Section 100 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, these arrears are payable as part of any VT.

Currently the repairs that are required to the vehicle have not been completed, Section 100 (4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that the vehicle must be returned in a condition considered to be satisfactory for its age and mileage. Should this not be the case costs can be incurred for what would be considered necessary to return the vehicle to this standard.

As you are aware, once the vehicle was returned it was inspected independently to ascertain its condition and repairs required to the rear bumper, this work has been quoted at £60.00 plus VAT (£72.00). We are entitled to charge this amount based on the VT process and Consumer Credit Act as stated above.

Unfortunately we have found no basis for the complaints that have been raised. Despite this however Advantage Finance endeavor to assist all our customers in regards to the issues that they are facing and as a gesture of goodwill we would be happy to settle the account for £400.00, this can been done over a two monthly payments of £200.00 and once the £400.00 has been received the remainder of the balance would be written off.

If you wish to discuss this with us then please feel free to contact us on 01472 586325 and we will be more than happy to discuss these issues with you and set up a payment arrangement with you.

You are able to seek further advice in regards to the information contained within this letter by contacting your local Citizens Advice Bureau whose details can be found on their website: http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/. Alternatively, you are able to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service on 0800 0234567 or in writing to The Financial Ombudsman Service, Exchange Tower, London. E14 9SR.
Failure to request adjudication by Financial Ombudsman in this case within six months of our final response being issued may result in it being “time barred”, resulting in the complaint not being investigated further.

Yours Sincerely



Darren Young
Specialist Collection Manager

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Hi Michelle, I am not entirely sure why you have no other choice but to pay this. You do have the option of going t the Financial Ombudsman and making a complaint even if they do not find in your favour you can still reject it and it is up to them to go to court and seek the alleged debt they owe, which I don't think they will as not commercially viable.

I assume the car has already been sold at auction?

Was damage report carried out by Manheim?

You received an email from them on 4 March, acknowledging you wishing to VT - this is almost a whole month in advance so I am not quite sure why they are saying that Aprils payment was required? once you have given notice your liability ends there and no notice period is required.

he's interpreted s.100 in his own way nothing in that section says a condition satisfactory given age and mileage but just simply states reasonable and that could mean an overall condition being reasonable.

I can help you with the complaint to the Ombudsman and response to this person or you can pay up, its your choice.

[Michellec80]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Hi R0b. I don't want to pay but I didn't really want to go to court for them to find in their favour and add all sorts of financial charges on top. Money is tight which is why we needed to a VT. I'm probably just frustrated at their lack of ability to see it from my point of view.

The car has been sold. I'm not sure who carried out a damage report. The bumper was cracked when we got the car. It was cosmetic which I fully intended to sort out over time but never got round to it. It wasn't an urgent fix. I regret not mentioning it to the dealer at the time. It just seemed pointless as we'd travelled from Reading to Stoke to collect it. Hindsight!

They are saying we VT'd on 4/3/16 but the payment due on 2/3/16 was returned on 3/3/16 unpaid. We are not sure why or how but it did return unpaid. It therefore seems we do owe the amount they want for that. As you say, a payment for April would not be applicable.

I would still like to make a complaint to the ombudsman if that is still the right thing to do and any help doing so would be appreciated. We probably do owe them something, just not the amount they are asking for. Even with the 'discount' they've offered.

Thanks again for your help.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

When did you send the notice? was it by email or letter? I have noticed that some lenders might not acknowledge receipt until the next payment date and then argue they are entitled to that payment which of course should be argued against depending on when you sent the notice to terminate.

You can of course make the complaint to the ombudsman, it is hit and miss but it is up to you whether you wish to accept and you could appeal the initial decision too if you are no happy with the decision. People from the ombudsman are unlikely to be legally trained and will only look at the evidence you bring to their attention and this is what they will interpret.

If the issue did go to court, it will be a small claims issue and if you lost, that would cost maybe around £100 and if they decided to use a solicitor then that would be another £100 but that is as far as your liability would go. I don't think they would use a solicitor because the cost of paying one to attend court in a small claim will probably cost more than it would for the whole claim itself.

I think there is more chance of them writing it off than taking it to court on the off chance that they might recover something. They would be required to show to the court that (a) the damage was not there and caused by you and (b) that the damage cause has put the car in an unreasonable condition.

The problem with (a) is that they didn't carry out an initial inspection so how can they prove that it was caused by you. You are not required to incur further expenses where damage is not caused by you, it will your word against theirs and because they cannot supply any evidence then I cant see how they can claim for it. In relation to (b) the cost of the repairs are likely to put the car in a condition that is more than reasonable and they are not entitled to recover anything past this point because it says reasonable condition, not good or excellent. How do you determine what is reasonable and what is not? Just because there is an issue with the bumper does not make the car's condition fall into the unreasonable category if that is just the only issue.

I'll try and provide something in the next day or two to respond to the finance co and as we have up to 6 months to make the complaint there's no rush for that and can work on it

[Michellec80]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

I emailed them on 3/3/16. On 4/4/16 they responded saying they did not recognise the email I had contacted them from so couldn't process the email until I provided more details, which I did straight away.

I would like to go ahead with the complaint. I want to make it as difficult as possible for them to steal my money.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Very strange as to why it took them over a month to respond, and notice would have been served by then so there was no payment due. What information are they saying that you didn't provide? If you supplied enough information to identify yourself and the agreement and the vehicle then it sounds like an excuse to me.

I will work on something over the weekend

[Michellec80]

Re: Voluntary termination of hire purchase

Ah sorry, that should have said 4/3/16. I'm using my phone. Fat fingers = silly mistakes. Sorry.

If still relevant, when I first contacted them I gave my full name.