No car insurance

[Melv1n]

Hello,
I was pulled over last February for having no insurance. I had paid online in full but as it happened there was a cyber space mix up and funds were paid but no policy was issued. My insurance company addmitted completely it was their fault and issued me a letter of indemnity but couldn't give me a certificate of insurance as there was no policy. I questioned this with them and they said the letter of indemnity is all I needed and if there are any problems they can ring them which it states on the letter itself. I had my first hearing and after entering the court room they said that I had to go to the police station with my letter and they will check the details and give me a sealed envelope to bring back which I did. I then got back to the hearing and my letter wasn't recognised as proof by the police. They quietly said the police tried to ring the number on the letter but got no answer. So my letter of indemnity was just useless. I was then heavily leaned on to plead guilty as they kept saying I had no proof and the fees will be a lot more if I go to trial so I pleaded guilty. I found out that was a wrong decision as I spoke to the insurance company and they said it's the first time that the letter of indemnity has been refused and that they can confirm that I was insured on the NIB. They told me that I need to persuade the court to re open the case so I can go to trial. I can not afford any of these court fees especially as there's no telling if they will re open the case.
How can my letter of indemnity not be proof because the police didn't get through to the unnderwriters using the number on the letter of indemnity. If I had known they tried to call but didn't get through when I was at the police station I would've insisted it was important (which they obviously know anyway). Could I have made the police ring until they got through? How do I know they even made the call??
How is this justice? I have paid thousands of pounds in extra insurance just to get my car back from the compound, now I have 6 points and fees and now 4 years of stupid insurance costs.... because a website didnt operate properly. Is that my fault???

[wales01man]

Re: No car insurance

LbBhas an EX> Insurance broker who can advise on this he will no doubt post at some time to help

[Openlaw15]

Re: No car insurance

Hello,
I was pulled over last February for having no insurance. I had paid online in full but as it happened there was a cyber space mix up and funds were paid but no policy was issued. My insurance company addmitted completely it was their fault and issued me a letter of indemnity but couldn't give me a certificate of insurance as there was no policy. I questioned this with them and they said the letter of indemnity is all I needed and if there are any problems they can ring them which it states on the letter itself. I had my first hearing and after entering the court room they said that I had to go to the police station with my letter and they will check the details and give me a sealed envelope to bring back which I did. I then got back to the hearing and my letter wasn't recognised as proof by the police. They quietly said the police tried to ring the number on the letter but got no answer. So my letter of indemnity was just useless. I was then heavily leaned on to plead guilty as they kept saying I had no proof and the fees will be a lot more if I go to trial so I pleaded guilty. I found out that was a wrong decision as I spoke to the insurance company and they said it's the first time that the letter of indemnity has been refused and that they can confirm that I was insured on the NIB. They told me that I need to persuade the court to re open the case so I can go to trial. I can not afford any of these court fees especially as there's no telling if they will re open the case.
How can my letter of indemnity not be proof because the police didn't get through to the unnderwriters using the number on the letter of indemnity. If I had known they tried to call but didn't get through when I was at the police station I would've insisted it was important (which they obviously know anyway). Could I have made the police ring until they got through? How do I know they even made the call??
How is this justice? I have paid thousands of pounds in extra insurance just to get my car back from the compound, now I have 6 points and fees and now 4 years of stupid insurance costs.... because a website didnt operate properly. Is that my fault???

What date you take out the insurance originally? It's a shame you never posted here before it got the hearing stage, in your circumstance I would have definitely told you not to plead guilty as you were simply not guilty. You may have a claim against your insurance company possibly for negligence, as you should simply have been issued with a certificate of insurance once you had paid or alternatively an equivalent form which would satisfy the police that you had insurance on the relevant date. Was this a renewal of your insurance with the same company, or was it a new insurance policy? It sounds like it's a renewal to me as you generally would not change anything on renewal. Did you have a lawyer representing you at the time in court, why on earth would they advise you to plead guilty in your circumstance is beyond me. If you had a lawyer representing, you possibly have claim against them as in my view being leaned on heavily to plead guilty in your situation is simply negligent.

[wales01man]

Re: No car insurance

Was the premium or a deposit taken prior to the offence? Surely if they accept payment you are insured

[R0b]

Re: No car insurance

The main point which needs answering is that you should appeal your conviction, what costs and fees is it you are talking about that you can't afford?
Unless you are happy with a criminal conviction for the remainder of your life then just leave it otherwise you need to get an appeal in there, you may be eligible for legal aid if your unable to afford anything.

Your insurers seem surprise by the fact it was rejectd and sounds like you were coerced into a guilty plea despite your proof from the insurers. Not quite sure why you didnt get initial legal advice but hey ho its happened.

Doesn't sound like a difficult one to overturn.

[Openlaw15]

Re: No car insurance

The main point which needs answering is that you should appeal your conviction, what costs and fees is it you are talking about that you can't afford?
Unless you are happy with a criminal conviction for the remainder of your life then just leave it otherwise you need to get an appeal in there, you may be eligible for legal aid if your unable to afford anything.

Your insurers seem surprise by the fact it was rejectd and sounds like you were coerced into a guilty plea despite your proof from the insurers. Not quite sure why you didnt get initial legal advice but hey ho its happened.

Doesn't sound like a difficult one to overturn.

Not difficult to overturn, you say? Did you read his words, "so I pleaded guilty." If you plead guilty it's tantamount to guilt 'by confession' which does not require a trial (hearing). This person is very limited in what he can do. Had he pleaded not guilty, it may have been possible to appeal. The magistrate is still a criminal court no matter what.

[R0b]

Re: No car insurance

Not difficult to overturn, you say? Did you read his words, "so I pleaded guilty." If you plead guilty it's tantamount to guilt 'by confession' which does not require a trial (hearing). This person is very limited in what he can do. Had he pleaded not guilty, it may have been possible to appeal. The magistrate is still a criminal court no matter what.

Read the whole post please rather than just selectively pick words.

I was then heavily leaned on to plead guilty

[Openlaw15]

Re: No car insurance

Read the whole post please rather than just selectively pick words.

No I read the salient terms. It is not easy at all to overturn/ appeal a decision where the defendant admits guilt whether the circumstances are immoral or not. The defendant up to the point of the verdict can retract a confession at common law. The magistrates' as a court is limited in its distribution of powers, so any powers are likely to be beyond magistrates for a start. However, appealing to the higher courts is very difficult as his guilty plea has prejudiced him from being given a fair hearing. If it were a serious crime the courts have an assortment of powers, especially the Court of Appeal. The Crown Court could technically send the case back to the Magistrates if there was such an appeal.

[R0b]

Re: No car insurance

He had no legal representation (I'm assuming this), the insurance company supplied him with a letter, they can also confirm that the vehicle was registered on the MIB, he was leaned on to plead guilty and thus in a vulnerable positon without seeking legal advice, even worse if he was not told he could seek advice from someone ... looks like good odds to me. And what about all those cases throughout the years where convictions get overturned because of being coerced into pleading guilty?

the simple answer is to appeal the case, nothing to lose and it would be ludicrous for someone to plead guilty when they have a letter from an insurer and can confirm that it was registered on the database.

[nemesis45]

Re: No car insurance

He had no legal representation (I'm assuming this), the insurance company supplied him with a letter, they can also confirm that the vehicle was registered on the MIB, he was leaned on to plead guilty and thus in a vulnerable positon without seeking legal advice, even worse if he was not told he could seek advice from someone ... looks like good odds to me. And what about all those cases throughout the years where convictions get overturned because of being coerced into pleading guilty?

the simple answer is to appeal the case, nothing to lose and it would be ludicrous for someone to plead guilty when they have a letter from an insurer and can confirm that it was registered on the database.

Well said [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] Common sense and logic!!!

nem

[Openlaw15]

Re: No car insurance

He had no legal representation (I'm assuming this), the insurance company supplied him with a letter, they can also confirm that the vehicle was registered on the MIB, he was leaned on to plead guilty and thus in a vulnerable positon without seeking legal advice, even worse if he was not told he could seek advice from someone ... looks like good odds to me. And what about all those cases throughout the years where convictions get overturned because of being coerced into pleading guilty?

the simple answer is to appeal the case, nothing to lose and it would be ludicrous for someone to plead guilty when they have a letter from an insurer and can confirm that it was registered on the database.

The problem is he was (allegedly) heavily leaned on to plead guilty, by whom? He has the burden of proving that he felt it necessary to plead guilty, not vice versa. The opponent will argue well we were just trying to save the courts the time as we had enough evidence to secure a safe verdict. How many people do you think go through the magistrates' system? How is he ever going to prove coercion? If he did not have a lawyer, who was taking notes? What evidence did he secure to prove that coercion. The Crown Court is likely to say, why on god's green earth would you accept a plea of guilty if in fact you were not guilty which should have been the plea entered were the facts as you say were, except that you were incapacitated or restricted in some other way that meant you could not have been fit to plead. The judge will likely continue, the idea of accepting a plea of guilty is to allow the court to be more lenient in terms in offering a reduction where available notwithstanding saving the court resources to ensure the justice system's resources are not overwhelmed.

NB: MelV1N - am playing devil's advocate - it's not to discredit you in any way, it is to make you alert to the potential barriers if you were to appeal. I am not saying do not appeal, I am saying be equipped were you to do so.

[Melv1n]

Re: No car insurance

Oh wow!!!!

Thanks for all the rapid replies.
Admittedly I purchased the insurance mid December and was caught in February. Its my first car insurance policy.

I didn't have any legal representation. I should've seeked free legal advice. Knowing what I know now I could walk it. All I had to do was take my letter of indemnity to the police station at any time before the hearing, possibly with my not guilty plea so they would've maybe understood its importance? 😒
I had no idea that I could go to the police and sort it out with them, then they would drop the prosecution. I literally thought it was upto the courts to decide so I waited. Naive of me yes. Stupid even. Lesson learnt.

I spoke to a solicitor and he quoted me £1500+vat to try to re-open the case and he was pretty clear that it was about 50/50 it could go either way. Then to have help at the trial would be more money.
He mentioned a different route but could cost £5000-£10000. He said because I have pleaded guilty already it's now very difficult. I should mention that at the hearing I did stick to my not guilty plea and they started to go ahead with it and I had to ask them to change my plea through fear of extra costs. I believe I am not guilty. I pleaded guilty because I can't afford it.

[Melv1n]

Re: No car insurance

Openlaw15- thank you for your replies. I'm greatful for your knowledge.

R0b- After my hearing I'm pretty disappointed. I really don't want to spend any money and go back there. I feel as if I was bullied. There's many ways to look at it and the way I see it is, you have to talk their language and act the way they want you to act. If you can't do that you need to employ someone to do it for you or they take advantage of you.

ive lost sleep and stressed about this for months and even though I feel wronged I have had the first decent nights sleep I've had in a long time because it's over. I'm probably just going to accept the points pay the fine and sleep well. It's ludicrous. I bet there's thousands of people like me just happy to get some decent sleep.

[Openlaw15]

Re: No car insurance

Oh wow!!!!

Thanks for all the rapid replies.
Admittedly I purchased the insurance mid December and was caught in February. Its my first car insurance policy.

I didn't have any legal representation. I should've seeked free legal advice. Knowing what I know now I could walk it. All I had to do was take my letter of indemnity to the police station at any time before the hearing, possibly with my not guilty plea so they would've maybe understood its importance? 
I had no idea that I could go to the police and sort it out with them, then they would drop the prosecution. I literally thought it was upto the courts to decide so I waited. Naive of me yes. Stupid even. Lesson learnt.

I spoke to a solicitor and he quoted me £1500+vat to try to re-open the case and he was pretty clear that it was about 50/50 it could go either way. Then to have help at the trial would be more money.
He mentioned a different route but could cost £5000-£10000. He said because I have pleaded guilty already it's now very difficult. I should mention that at the hearing I did stick to my not guilty plea and they started to go ahead with it and I had to ask them to change my plea through fear of extra costs. I believe I am not guilty. I pleaded guilty because I can't afford it.

yes, it's very difficult as i said in the above post...the damage has been done. Would you get legal aid in your situation or is your income in the higher threshold?

[des8]

Re: No car insurance

The issuing of a letter of Indemnity is a regular occurrence for insurance companies, and really the police should IMO have done more than just one phone call attempt.
If the letter had been a forgery they would have had another charge against you .... they should have ascertained if it was or was not.

Having said that you are where you are, and as both Openlaw & your solicitor have said getting a criminal conviction overturned when you have pleaded guilty, is not only difficult and uncertain but b****y expensive.
Others commented on previous high profile cases that have been overturned, but these will concern long terms of imprisonment and have been funded by charities or probono groups or family & friends fundraising.
I doubt a conviction for driving uninsured (though galling for you) will raise that much support.