Parking Enforcement Notice

[Catarunkey]

Firstly, hello to everyone who use this site, as I am a new user!
On the 1st March 2014 I apparently overstayed my welcome at a KFC free car park in Stockton On Tees. The car parking signage is displayed at a height much greater than can be seen from a car & states that you can park there for 90 minutes for free. They, Civil Enforcement Ltd, have me parking there from 12:26:42 until 14:47:26 & only have a photograph of my car, but not of myself, so I cannot even be sure that it was myself whom was driving at this time. They have issued a PCN (parking charge notice) giving me 14 days to pay £60 or the charge will go up to £100. I was working away on an oil rig at the time & knew nothing about this until I returned home on the 20th March 2014, by which time the fine had gone up to £100. I subsequently wrote them a letter stating this, but not admitting nor denying that it was myself whom was driving this vehicle at the time & I have received a letter in response saying that they have extended the period by which I can pay at the reduced fee of £60. Yet when I have phoned the number on the letter, the same one as on the enforcement notice, 0115 822 5020, & put the 10 digit PCN number, it clearly states that I owe £100 & there is no other number etc to contact anyone to dispute this.
My argument is, Do I have to pay this fine or should I ignore it & any subsequent threatening letters from these people, as I have read on so many other posts on various sites of people doing exactly that & getting off with it, or has the law changed regarding this. I also read on a BBC site from Google that these companies have NO legal power to fine people, & as I've already stated the car park is a free car park, apart from their signage. The only people that can fine you are the POLICE & the COUNCIL according to the BBC site.
The BBC site is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01b...rivate-parking.

[mystery1]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

Dear Sirs,

I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals procedure. The driver did not see the signs and in any case the charges are penal and not a genuine pre estimate of loss.

I am under no statutory obligation to name the driver and will not do so. Should you reject my appeal please supply a popla code.

Yours etc


For popla an appeal such as http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...-Appeal-Letter has proven a winner.

M1

[Percy2110]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

Hi catarunkey

This is Percy 2110

have a look at my thread on these jokers, I have just had a good result in having the coop pay the fine to them. I received a pcn for a car parking in the coop when I was not the driver. I challenged it and a long correspondence with them. I would advise don't pay them! See my thread and e mail the people that I listed. Explain your case to them but for heavens sake deny that you are the driver and as you work away you also don't know the driver details. You are under no legal obligation to name the driver if you did know?

Insist politely that that you were away working at the time and therefore you could not have been the driver and that you can prove this if required (they won't ask for proof). Also add that this is causing you some considerable stress and as you do work away you can't have this situation at home whilst away, which is fair to say etc. give them the pcn numbers and date and place of the offence. Also you have attempted to solve this with CE ltd but it is impossible to contact them to resolve it.


i would say that they will pay it off as they did mine and apologise to you, as I understand it they have trouble in keeping these jokers in line? And it certainly won't go to court as they would lose. These seldom go to court because only the council can enforce parking tickets. All parking on private land is not enforceable as I understand it legally. And as said you are not legally forced to name the driver even if you knew who it was which I expect you don't.


Have a go I did this yesterday and today they paid the fine off and it was much the same circumstances as your self.


good luck


percy 2110

[ostell]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

Do not heed the advice given by percy2110!! Follow the advice given by Mystery1. They can claim from you as the registered keeper, even if you were not driving.

The mention of the coop is irrelevant in your case as the coop are trying to get get rid of CEL and trying to keep customers by paying CEL's ridiculous charges.

Wait till you get the POPLA code then come back for a full appeal to POPLA that will cancel the payment. You may also like to look at the pepipoo forums

[Percy2110]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

Hi

i was charged as the registers keeper, even though I was out of the UK at the time, and yes CE ltd insist that as the registered keeper that I should know the identity of the actual driver at the time? I didn't know who the driver was and legally if I did know I was under no obligation to give them this information?

they insisted that I should pay them and recoup the expense from the driver? As I didn't know who the driver was this would be a bit daft on my part? And also be an admission of my guilt? As I understand it from a legal friend of mine.

i went down the route of contacting the HQ of the coop in Manchester and explaining my case, of which they sided with me!

the result being that they have paid the fine requested by CE ltd?

So perhaps the advice to ignore me is a bit unrealistic but I do also understand the caution that you offer?


for me it worked out very well, I can only offer my experience in dealing with both CE ltd and the car park owners, in this instance the coop. Rather than go on for weeks or months arguing to and fro I decided that I would take the bull by the horns as it were? And also I shall be leaving to go overseas again very soon and I didn't want this hanging about for my wife to deal with.


again it worked for me, but it may not work for every one?


the whole basis of this forum is to offer advice and experience of matters relating to predicaments that we have gotten ourselves into by our own fault or not.

this is my experience and I have shared it, what has the guy got to lose? It is only advice take it or leave it but consider it?


cheers

percy2110

[ostell]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

You were in a coop car park, Catarunkey was at KFC. Coop are paying CEL charges, don't think KFC are.

You don't seem to understand POFA. If they don't have the name of the driver then they can claim from the keeper. The keeper, if he is so minded but is not obliged to, can give the name of the driver and the company will chase the driver and leave the keeper alone otherwise they keep chasing the keeper.

[Catarunkey]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

Hi to everyone who has replied to my thread!
Thanks to you all for the advice etc, it will all be taken on board & just a quick bit of information regarding my situation. I have received another letter from those nice people at Civil Enforcement Ltd, but I don't yet know what it is as I am away working again. I will post its content when I return home, but I can say this for sure, I will not be paying these people anything!

[Catarunkey]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

Hello again,
As per my last post, here is the letter I received from Civil Enforcement Ltd, which states, "We refer to your recent letter. We have considered the matters raised, but regret to advise that we are unable to cancel this enforcement notice. In response to the specific issues raised in your letter we would respond as follows:-
The car park has experienced severe problems with unauthorised parking, resulting in vehicles being parked for long periods of time & occupying valuable space. There are many clear & visible signs displayed on the site, advising drivers of the regulations in force.
It is the drivers responsibility to pay this PCN; however, in England & Wales, if after 28 days from the issue date, this PCN has not been paid or you have not provided us with the name & current address for service of the driver, then under section 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 we do now have the right, subject to the requirements of the act having been complied with, to recover from the registered keeper at the time the vehicle was parked, sums that remain unpaid.
It is the responsibility of the driver to ensure they adhere to the parking terms.
The charge that has been levied is clearly stated on the signage around the site. Furthermore, it falls within the British Parking Association's recommended guidelines for car park enforcement. As mentioned above, there are many clear & visible signs displayed on the site advising drivers of the regulations in force & we maintain a continuous log confirming that the signage remains in place.
The enforcement notice remains valid as the ticket was correctly issued in accordance with the terms & conditions stated. Payment must therefore be made without delay. However in view of your correspondence, we have yet again extended the time allowance for you to pay at the original reduced charge by a further 14 days, even if you have received a final reminder demanding payment at the higher rate.
In the event that payment is not received, we will have no option but to issue proceedings against you to recover the amounts due to us. We will add our additional costs, interest & fees to the claim.
If you are unhappy with our decision (& if the parking incident occurred in England & Wales) you may take an appeal to POPLA- the independent Appeals Service using the code previously provided".
As far as I can see, this is yet another attempt to scare me into paying this ridiculous charge & as far as I can recall I do not think that the signage does not clearly state the terms & conditions & it certainly does not display the £60 penalty charge, but the higher rate penalty of £100 & a phone number to contact in order to make this payment.
Any advice on this matter as to which way I should proceed, would be gratefully accepted & also the 14 days grace will have run out by the 21st, so I would not now have the right to pay at the reduced rate of £60, not that I will or am going to do this in any case.
Many Thanks,
Catarunkey.

[mystery1]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

You need to utilise the popla code. The code is time sensitive though http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla-code-checker/

Use http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...-Appeal-Letter as a base and alter to suit.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...pany-victories shows it works and there are 2/3 CEL in there too

M1

[Catarunkey]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

Hello to everyone out there in Legal Beagle land!
Well finally I can give everyone some fantastic news after I had been given the date of my appeal to POPLA, on the 28th May, 2014.
I received an e mail from the POPLA appeal informing myself that I have won my appeal on the grounds that the operator CEL, did not nor could not prove that the parking charge as a genuine pre estimate of loss & as such they, CEL, now have to cancel their parking charge notice forthwith.
I cannot thank you all enough out there for all your help, it has been incredible & great to know that the little people out there can win against these extortionists & thieves.
I just wish I knew how to upload the appeal letter to this site for reference for others to follow, so any help with this would be gratefully appreciated.
Regards,
Catarunkey

[Amethyst]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...r-details-safe!)

Congratulations xx

[Catarunkey]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

Thank you very much Amethyst.
Without people & sites like yours people like myself would be left in a much worse situation & quite a few £'s lighter in the pocket through scare tactics employed by these charlatans who think that they have a legal right to be able to charge whatever they deem to be right in order to line their own pockets.
I know that myself for one was one of those people who was nearly frightened into paying this outrageous fine due to their use of legal terminology etc etc, I'm so glad that I did not pay & that I found your site in time & fought & won this case.
Kindest Regards,
Catarunkey:grin:

[GRC1963]

Re: Parking Enforcement Notice

Old thread revival.
Hello everyone.
I have just registered with a specific reason of furthering this thread and updating.
I have just had a PCN from Civil Enforcement for the exact same car park:
KFC in Stockton on Tees.
This car park was always 90 minutes free. I need to check today whether this has changed. The PCN letter stated 60 minutes free.
There are two photos of my car. One entering at 14:40:39 and the other leaving at 16:11:51.
It dates back to mid-February and I am unsure what I did on that day.
I checked some great advice on parkingcowboys.co.uk and have read for some ways to appeal there.
I would like any further advice if possible.
They suggest raising the double-dip argument.
It is possible I drove in, couldn't find a space, drove out and then returned later. I cannot recall and need to track down receipts, bank statements etc to see if they help. My iphone tracking service shows I was only in Stockton town centre on that date between 15:33 and 16:15. How reliable is this as an appeal mechanism? How do you use the info on your phone?
If I'm wrong and I was there for one continuous period, does the fact of it being only 1min12secs over the 90 minutes carry any weight (allowing for finding, parking, driving out time etc)?
How / where can I check when the time limit was narrowed from 90 to 60 minutes if that is actually the case?
Many thanks for any help.
Richard